Pop Quiz, Hot Shot…
You find yourself on your couch, jacked into Xbox Live. You and a party of your mates load-up into ranked Matchmaking for Halo2. You calculate that you have enough time for a few spirited rounds before your roommate comes home and starts stealing your precious bandwidth to look at naked people. That loser.
With a quick spin of the four combination locks, you find yourself slated for an objective game in a place called Relic. It’s not your favorite map, but a place familiar to you nonetheless. After all, you play Halo2 quite often. You are hardly a n00b. No way mister. Not you! You’re the guy who eats guests for breakfast in Team Training. Your rank has fluxuated respectably in the low-thirties for months now – not that anyone is keeping track.
The game begins. Sunlinght streams lazily through the salty air. Red armor encases your team. Lucky draw, Spartan! Defense of the sacred tower falls to you first. You get to survey the moves of the other team. You get last at bat.
Your mates go running off on their respective shopping sprees. As is common knowledge among anyone who is interested enough in this game to peruse an obscure blog, that clumsy old Warthog should be bounding up the ramp of your base any second now.
And, of course, here it comes. The metalic whine of the engine gives it away like a bull in an EB Games. Looks like a whole family of suicide pilots are on-board, too. Come and get some…
Time to pop a few grenades and score a shiny new Triple Kill Medal to add to your collection. You like medals, after all. You have lost count of how many of them you have, but it sure is fun to brag about them in the post-game lobby. You wonder what the other fellas will say as you list them off out loud. They will probably just fall silent in awe of your skills. Then maybe you can even have the last word. Oh, man; that would be sweet.
Sure enough, that ‘Hog gets just a little air off the ramp just as it passes over your ticking time bomb of plasma. An eruption of blue flame tosses the rusty old cart onto the beach like a pop-fly to left field. Beautiful. Your favorite. ‘Triple Kill’ speaks that voice, the one you hear inside your head in large crowds of people, like an old friend.
As the smoke clears and the wreckage comes to rest in the surf, the corner of your eye catches a razor of light lancing out across the bruised sky. That dead-eye sniper in your party – the one who always dashes off to wield the long barrel – calls out that he took down the other team’s sniper by the portal exit. So much for a pat on the back for your Warthog takedown. Sniper’s get all the fun.
Now… Here is the question. What is your next move? Your team is doing well. You repelled the first rush. Those guys back near the drop ship must be feeling pretty foolish right now. You are playing a good game. You and yours will probably carry the day this time; and maybe even score that rank increase you were daydreaming about at work.
Do you hunker down and wait for your worthy opponent to make their next move?
Or do you pop open that green cone of light in the basement of your keep and help yourself to the rifle that your opponent dropped at the other side of the door?
Better judgement takes a back seat to the visions of medals and headshots and Killtrocities that swirl in your head. Before you know what you are doing, you are bounding through that door. The rifle is yours. The butt is against your shoulder. The scope focuses your aim like a laser – right at the enemy spawn points.
One by one, your opponents appear like star trekkers on an away mission. One by one, they fall like toys with dead batteries as the contrail of your bullet intersects their faceplate. That old friend of yours, the announcer, is patting you on the back again. He is obviously overjoyed with the ‘Killing Spree’ upon whch you find yourself!
Now you are on fire. The beach is starting to look like a garage sale, strewn with impotent SMGs and lifeless n00b corpses. Now you are showing them! One by one, they grow back like weeds. One by one, you pick them.
You are the boss.
You are the big winner.
You are the fisherman who hunts from a barrel.
You are the fighter who kicks a man when he is down.
You are the brave soldier who executes a man tied to a pole.
Sure, you could have given these poor souls a good game – shown your fellow gamers a little sportsmanship. You suppose that, maybe, you might be ruining the experience for them. It even occurs to you that they are probably growing a little irritated with your behavior right about now – especially that one who has resorted to squatting every time he respawns.
But screw them, right? Honor and dignity are concerns for people who have no skill. Right?
The debate over spawn killing is a tough one. There are no rules against such a maneuver. You can’t get banned for it. Any military strategist would tell you that taking out the factory is the surest means of eliminating the threat of the enemy war machine.
I guess it all comes down to the difference between games [designed for enjoyment and healthy competition] and real life [which, as we all know, can be a bitch]. I don’t suspect that a discussion on the matter will change anyone’s mind on either side of the warp door.
But let’s have it anyway!
http://nikon.bungie.org/misc/stuntmutt.html?type=main&image=415
;A-)
for the life of me, i cannot understand why the game spawns you in front of the enemy in such a situation. the maps are huge (in most cases), and the obstructions are plentiful. i’ve heard that some games will provide you a choice of where you want to spawn. while that seems to be an interesting suggestion, why not just improve the spawn system? burial mounds is a perfect example. why not spawn the team in the ribs? why not spawn near the purples? to me, the br start helps to alleviate this problem. while not solving it entirely, it at least provides the spawner an increased chance at staying alive.
all that being said, who hasn’t spawn killed? on principle, it is akin to using the combo. unfair, possibly. however, it should not be our responsibility to force ‘fairness’ upon the game…this kinda gets back to a previous discussion about balance.
geez, hope i didn’t open up a can!
Interesting points. Personally, I think it would be sad if interactive software was the only means of creating a sense of ettiquette among gamers.
I agree, Deej. The spawn-killing issue really points to larger matters.
Games have traditionally been limited enough that “foul play” could be kept to a minimum. But games are becoming so advanced these days that programming code is just not enough to define etiquette (nor should it). XBL is really pushing this to the forefront of the gaming world.
Thank God for clans.
I could really see the clan system evolving even more, making sure gamers with similar tastes and dispositions play together. I decided to play a lonesome Matchmaking game the other day without my clanmates, and I regretted it. I really did. I have no interest in being on any team now that doesn’t have a significant GS presence.
I agree it is a legitimate tactic. Absolutely. Maintain the high ground and the advantage at all times. And I HATE to be spawn killed like that (as my many clan mates will attest to as they have heard my rising gorge on the other side of the mic). I think there is a time and place to use such a strategy. The times it pisses me off (and when I will ask my team mates to back off that tactic) is after you have assured a victory on an objective game type. YouaO™re up a flag or bomb 2 aO” 0, and there is no way for the other team to win. I consider that just mean spirited rubbing my face in your ugly s***. ItaO™s uncalled for and itaO™s unbecoming for an Officer and Spartan.
And then what gets me is when that sniper starts crowing. Killtacular! What n00bs! These guys suck. ItaO™s damn hard (though not impossible) when you are such a fish in such a barrel to get out, but that hardly qualifies the perp on the other end of that sniper rifle bragging rights. Yeah, I can keep a box of kittens at bay with a shotgun all day, or catch a bushel of fish with a stick of dynamite, but it hardly qualifies as good sportsmanship.
The time to use it is in that first round. Gain the upper hand. Bring it to them hard and donaO™t let them get upper hand. But if youaO™ve secured a win and are still using that tactic, youaO™re prolly just being a bully.
Over at Tied the Leader, XerxDeeJ has yet another good article about a major complaint in the Halo 2 multiplayer environment. Spawn camping is a technique that some players engage in[...]
It is bad sportsmanship, it just is. Sure, it’s effective and it’s surely not cheating, but neither is screaming at the top of your lungs into the mic constantly in an attempt to disrupt the opponents near you. It’s not cheating, but if you say that’s not rude, YOU’RE rude.
If you’re playing an MLG game or anything where winning means you get something (like a real life war) then by all means, there are no rules aside from what you can and cannot physically do. Go for it.
But Halo 2 is not life or death, it’s fun or no fun. And spawn camping is no fun.
If you spawn camp as a last resort and to beat a team that you otherwise don’t think you could handle, fine…if you must. But if you spawn camp because it’s fun to kill defenseless players, you are an asshole. Just buy a few controllers and plug them into the other slots on your Xbox and kill non-moving players, I came to have fun.
When faced with the Relic situation described above, I grab some grenades and whatever’s at hand and wait on the sturcture for a close-range attack. That’s my job. Some people go out to the beaches, and that’s fine, too. But going over to the other teams base and killing them before they can move makes you no better than a modder. yeah yeah yeah – Unless it’s an important situation/game, I hear ya …but regular XBL play shouldn’t be taken that seriously, it should be for fun.
Max Power-
Good points.
Spawn Killing should be a suspendable offense. Act like an asshole over XBL by screaming slurs and threats and such and you can be suspended. It’s in bad taste and takes away from the enjoyment of the game from everyone. How is spawnkilling any different? Who’s having fun? The person doing the killing. After all, gotta get that kill count up to make me feel better about myself.
There is just no need for it, even for an MLG match. If you can’t beat a person/team on equal terms, you have no skill. It takes skill to confront a team/person on equal ground and consistantly come out on top. Ever watch gameplay vid of the pros? Do you see them spawn camping? No, in fact, you’re more likely to see them hold back and make the other team come to them.
A win from spawnkilling is hollow at best.
I think we need to differentiate between spawn-killing and spawn-camping (or however you want to label it), and also whether the game is a slayer match or an objective type.
I think the issue under discussion is not whether to kill the guy who just spawned with his back to you on FFA midship, but rather the deliberate headlock of setting up campers around a base and preventing them from actually playing the game.
And by the way, this has happened on the MLG tour before. I seem to recall a Snipers on Colossus (Team Slayer) which Team3D lost because the other team forced the spawns. They got Team3D into the blue base and set themselves up around the rest of the map. They made sure at least one of Team3D was always alive, and forced the others to spawn predictably.
Forcing spawns is something discussed in the recent “MLG for N00bs Guide,” and does not seem to be treated officially as unsportsmanlike. I’m not saying they’re right or wrong, just saying that this does happen in the Pro world. I’d like to hear more from them on this.
But even this is only in Slayer games. Forcing spawns in Slayer games is a team effort. Forcing spawns in CTF or Assault is non-existent, because the game does it for you.
I personally find CTF and Assault hard enough to play without having to worry about crappy spawns. Being spawn-camped is not something I enjoy, and I don’t like the fact that the game makes it so easy to do when I do it off myself.
But I see both sides of this argument, and I’d be glad to abide by a set of verbal agreements before each game.
T Munday:
It is not in the Clan Bylaws that Spwan killing (camping) is off limits. If anything, the Gunslingers want to encourage all types of play as long as the person can back up their game play. I’ll give ya a fer instance (at least these are my takes on the issue):
Spawn Camping and then calling the killed names – that falls our of our idea of fair play.
Spawn Camping/Killing as a tactic can be used but is not encouraged.
There are times when it is a legitimate offense/defense. I’ve had players yell rude things at me because (shock) I ran away from their bullets. I’m not going to stand still and let them give me a lead enema.
Spawn Camping is a legitimate tactic. So is the n00b combo.
As I mentioned in my post, I do not like to Spawn Camp, but damnit, but I like to win, and if we are down and we can gain an advantage by using a legitimate tactic? Fock yeah baby. Use it. Just don’t abuse it.
Another fer instance: Lets say it’s an objective game type like Assualt. They’ve all gone blewy at the top of Relic. You better believe I’ll harass their spawn point to slow them down so the bomb will return. Hell yeah. Then I’ll back off and let them rush again.
I’m sorry, but to me your post is saying under it’s breath that we are beign hypocrites, and I don’t think that’s the case.
Fock, the TTL Mission, is, and I quote from our founder:
“The TTL Gunslingers seek to uphold the highest standards of sportsmanship and fair-play. We fight with honor and a light heart; but with the expressed intention to carry the day. Our opponents, in either defeat or victory at the conclusion of a match, can expect to hear little else from us than aOoeGood Game!aO ”
Can you honestly sit there and tell me that spawn-camping follows the mission? Occasionally we all will slip and do something that isn’t to the best of standards, but the repeated abuse of ingame shortcomings and repeated unsportsmanlike conduct is far from what this clan seeks.
You say that you’ll back off and let them rush again, and having played many games with you, I know that is exactly what you’d do; but at what point do we draw the line and say, “no, we don’t want that type of gameplay here” and take action? Of course, I’m not an Overlord, so what I say and do has very little meaning.
ok i just checked out this topic out so i’ll just explain this from a point of view of videogames. Videogames are just strategic-based simulations. Halo 2 is a good example. No matter what the game type both teams at the first spawn have an equal chance to win. Although, most people just think winning is from just skill aiming the sniper and getting 4 shots with the BR. If you think this way (which all of you people thinking spawn camping is bad do.), then when going up against good players you will probably not win and end up being spawn camped. Why is this you ask? its because good players know how to use strategy for that game. When in a spawn camp people dont ever think about anything but “oh my god they are killing me every time i spawn they are cheap waaa waaa waaa” Hello people, the other team did not start out the game with the spawn camp on you! it was their strategy and your mistakes in the game that doomed you to losing. of course some people are going to say that spawn camping is ruining the game since its not with sportsmanship. Let me tell you, if you are complaining about people out-smarting you in a fair game then its obvious you are not a competitor. Because a real competitor no matter whether it be a video-game, a sport, or even a general in some war, there is no complaining about others being better. You just learn from your mistakes and play the game better next time. And believe it or not, most people like playing with competition and have alot of fun and dont cry about losing. If you don’t want to compete in a game, then dont play it in a game type that is competitive like team slayer, skirmish, etc. just simply go do something else. Also, reading that whole argument that people yelling and being rude is bad sportsmanship. I agree completely with you. People yelling into their microphones is bad sportsmanshiop. But what does yelling into a mic and a strategy have anything in common with each other? It wasn’t the strategy that made the person yell at you, it was just the person. Please don’t mix up topics in a discussion.
as an overlord, i will weigh in again. spawn camping is ANNOYING and RUDE. however, there are times when it can be warranted AND, i still do not see why it is up to the player to determine the moral limits of the actual game play. screaming is one thing, but map control and weapon control are entirely tied to the game design. taking advantage of the design and exploiting it for your team is, imo, a simple aspect of being competitive at a particular game. end of story. does this mean i like to spawn camp? no. in fact, i prefer a frantic fight. however, if it’s a close game and that is an in-game advantage i can exploit—i’m going to use it and i’m not going to regret it. sorry, but that’s the way the game works. as long as i don’t rub it in in the postgame, i don’t feel that this falls outside the bounds of the TTL philosophy. at the end of the day, it’s about being cordial to the other team and about having a good time. winning, imo, is just an extension of that ‘good time’ experience. all are welcome to disagree.
I think that XBox live has pretty much already solved this problem for the next gen. Now those who do not yet have a 360 won’t know this but when you play with someone you don’t like… for whatever reason. You can avoid them. I don’t know how complete the system is… if it means you will never ever end up in a game with them… but so far I have yet to encounter someone I placed on avoid. So hypothetically this means that even in matchmaking you will only have to put up with a bad sport once. Assuming matchmaking surves the transition to Halo 3. The other thing I really love about this whole system is the idea of what it may create. A real utopia for each of us within our own subjective play style, and a certain hell for modders, hackers, and cheaters who all end up only playing with each other. I have to say, that last part really wags my tale. :)
Now all we need is a Halo 3. PD0 failed. I’m hoping Gears of War can bring me permanantly to the next gen because as much as I love it, playing Halo 2 on my 360 with a barely functioning emulator and pared down options is getting a bit frustrating.
The way I see it, if I don’t shoot them, they’re going to shoot me. If I can kill them before they can do that, then I will.
Though I do agree there are tons of different circumstances, and it isn’t always appropriate to do.
[quote]but at what point do we draw the line and say, “no, we don’t want that type of gameplay here” and take action? Of course, [/quote]
You’re asking for black and white regarding an issues that is a) not considered cheating by bungie, b) is subjetive, c) uses by some FFA folks in tournametns.
Frankly, there is a time when it’s a tactical choice, and there is a time when it’s just being a prick. No definitive line can be drawn for it except for yourself. You decide what’s over the line for you and hold to it, but don’t be surprised if not everyone agrees with you.
I would love to see a referee system in Halo. I would love to know not only that there is someone keeping my enemies in check, and dolling out punishments when they aren’t in check, but that they are also keeping an eye on me, keeping me from becoming the player that I hate to be.
It’s true, the more advanced what we can do in a game becomes, the less we can be penalized for doing. If only there were some way of holding ourselves to a standard of gameplay quality.
There isn’t though, and as hard as I try, I can’t even get myself to adhere to my ideals of sportsmanship in the heat of a frustrating game. I find myself doing whatever I can to win, and often mimicking the un-fair actions of my opponents in the name of fairness.
“If they’re spawncamping, I will too, It’s only fair.”
Fighting fire with fire isn’t always right, but does that stop most of us?
I think the solution is right here, talk about it. The more of us that try to agree on what is and isn’t sportsmanlike, instead of complaining about the other side’s view, the more we can spread that ideology, and omg mb have fun, k?
Wait, what am I talking about, we can’t even get this community to agree on whether or not this game is actually ABOUT being fun…
I guess I agree with malagate the most. I can see where CobaltNova is coming from, but on the other hand I probably would’ve retreated back to the base. Not necessarily through the portal. I would have backed off slowly so that I could stop or hinder any offensives as soon as they start. But lets say I snipe the bomb carrier out of a hog. Is watching the bomb with the sniper and not letting anyone get near it any better than spawn camping? I mean, I’m not gonna be in the game and be all, “Well, we’re up up 2-0, they can’t win. I’m just gonna let them pick the bomb up and get it close.”
Let’s look at it from the other teams’ perspective. I don’t want the other team to just sit back and wait for us because we can’t win. I want them to play their normal game.
I don’t know…
[quote] Suppose it’s CTF on Relic, we have the lead 1-0, it’s thier first offensive round, but they’ve brought our flag to the field in front of the Relic, we keep them at bay and the flag returns, do we stay on the beach and spawn kill so they cannot even think of making any kind of push? [/quote]
I think this is an easy one to answer: No. Why? Because the opponent is likely to spawn behind you and run up and get the flag again.
What you are asking for is reasonable, but at the same time I think it is (ultamtely) counter productive. Legislating the clan would become burdensome and would sap a lot of the fun out of it. As it stands, we all have a good idea what constitutes fair play. Spawn killing is a gray area. At any time if the clan felt that one or more of the gunslingrs was abusing the game or goodwill, the Overlords would meet, discuss it, and then talk to the offending person(s) and resolve the issue with discussion, not a hard clad set of rules.
If the issue was gray we might open it up to the clan for discussion in the forums and resolve the matter that way. I’ll speak with Deej and have them add a complaints/suggestion thread where we can open a dialouge on such matters.
I for one don’t want a solid set of rules laid down becaue I’ve seen something like that turn people sour and against one another. Spawn camping/killing is going to remain a debated topic for quite some time and I don’t see a definitive answer. Maybe through dialouge here and at the forums will bring a consensus we can abide by.
But I would offer this bit of caution: Never say Never.
I don’t think a specific set of guidelines is necessary. It seems to me that the overlords take plenty of precautions with recruitment. If someone is a dick, they would never get into the clan into the first place. And if someone on our team was being less than sportsmanlike, a quick comment like: “Hey Cobalt, back off the spawn camping a little bit” should be all that it takes. I can’t think of anyone here who would give their clanmates the finger and keep doing it.
-Ballistic
Well this is Halo so I am hesitant to even mention this, but for custom games you should be able to set how the span points behave.
In the new Ghost Recon Advanced warfighter you can set up random, choice, or fixed. Its nice to have the option depending on the game and how you want to play it out.
So for Matchmaking Objective games wouldn’t it be cool if the game gave you an option of where to spawn based upon the majority location of the enemy?
So if your base was getting spawn killed, you could in turn spawn closer to their base, which would give for whole new level of strategy. Go to take down their spawn points, better leave a few behind to be sure you aren’t overtaken at your base.
If you think about the concept I think it would make for better games overall.
I hate it, and I momentarily hate the people doing it, but it has its uses and is something that we already use.
Here’s the example of ‘spawn-killing’ that I would give. It’s assault on Coagulation. As a coordinated team you begin an attack on the defenders base. You can only score the bomb if the bomber has 10 seconds of uninterrupted time in their base. The only place they want to go? In their base.
If you are organized, you push your team slowly forward. You control vehicles. You obtain snipers, and they slowly move to midfield. You clear the roof of the base. You go inside and kill the last defenders. The hog drops it’s payload.
Now, the base is clear inside, and your team has it surrounded. They will spawn in the fields around the base, near the cliffs or near the teleporters. Do you let them get into the base and foil your attack? No. You spawn-kill. There’s no debate about it.
Now, if this is neutral bomb, your hog goes back and picks up the next bomb. Same theory applies. if you’re still controlling the map, you will score again. if you back off to start your next run, it takes a long time to reestablish that map control.
Same map, bad spawn-killing? Sure! The same team controls the same map, and has the bomb. But instead of trying to score it, they just pump stats and let the bomb guy pick his nose at midfield. They take it to sudden death and force you to quit because they’re never going to stop. Those people should die.
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DATE: 1/26/2006 04:24:22 PM
This comes down to, as with most everything else, situation.
In this specific situation, there are several things that make it easier on the opposing team. First and foremost, it is a four round game. They only have to persist through 3 minutes of shooting gallery to move on to a renewed balance. Second, it was their choice to rush the base under cover of the sniper. No matter what your opinion, they would NEVER have complained if their coup had succeeded. Rushing the base is a legitimate strategy, one that I have seen work many times. But in that strategy is the risk that all will fall apart and leave you with nothing to hold onto. But, that was only one round used on a gutsy play. So, you can see how this situation is not so horrible as it seems. Both teams should not feel bad about losing or terribly good about winning, thats just how the situation went. What seems so horrible to us is that this situation reveals the egotistical, annoying and downright evil nature of most gamers who play Halo. In most instances, this is no simple game of strategy, but rather a hellish pit where your enemies play against each other on who will kill you over insults to your skill and humanity, curses to your name and threats to you and your family.
In my opinion, a “firing squad” situation is only truly horrible if it was caused by a teamate screwing around, or handled imporperly by the opposing team, which happens to be 99% of the time.
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DATE: 1/26/2006 12:34:17 PM
Spawnkilling is very unsportsmanlike. If you make your way to the other teams base and just camp them all day, it’s really not playing. While it’s “effective” it’s not the right way to play the game. WHAT? Oh that’s right, it’s just a game. People should have fun. On games like the Relic one, you are defending a base. You should do just that.
Now if you keep the enemy “pinned down” to a certain area that’s different, that’s setting up an area and trying to keep them fenced into it.
Don’t get me wrong though, if I’m playing a Slayer game and someone spawns in front of me, I’m taking them out. Slayer spawns are more random, and I shouldn’t have to worry about a guy that just spawned in front of me, when I can put a shell in his head.
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DATE: 1/30/2006 02:19:50 PM
Thanks Ballistic for reminding me.
Hey Cobalt, back off the spawn camping.
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DATE: 1/26/2006 11:27:40 AM
Clan TTL Bylaws:
Post game lobby chatter: “Good Game!”.
More then just words, a style of play.
I find it really, really disturbing that an Overlord of the clan doesn’t adhere to the clan bylaws. But of course, if you can get 3 games in a row woth 50+ kills or go 49-0, who really needs ‘rules’ and ‘bylaws’?
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DATE: 1/26/2006 11:16:39 AM
I can see where cobaltnova is coming from, even though I don’t agree with his point of view. I’m a decent player, I like to have fun when I play, I rarely play balls-to-the-wall, no-holds-barred ruthless style.
That said, I will asassinate, snipe, or stick someone that spawns in front of me without hesitation. Why? Because they happened to be there. Killing them is a secondary objective; but if all other attackers have been repelled, then I don’t see why I shouldn’t put one in the newly-spawned’s brainpan.
This is not to say that I condone spawn-camping; far from it. Were I the player in the story, surely I’d secure the sniper, but I’d go back through the teleporter and wait for the next assault. I would still have the advantage of having both snipers on my team.
I personally like a good fight more than I like to win. I certainly want the advantage in the fight, but if my advantage is too great, that makes the victory hollow for me.
One way to combat spawn camping would be to have an invulnerability period for a few seconds, allowing the player to get to cover.
Hell, it wouldn’t even have to be invulnerability. Make each player spawn with half an overshield. Once that overshield has bled away and is gone, the player’s shield will only recharge to the normal level. Spawn camping would still be effective, but the tactic would be shorter-lived, as having to use multiple rounds per target will spend your ammo quickly.
Just a thought.
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DATE: 1/26/2006 09:35:18 AM
What. A. Pantload.
If you want your team to win and you have the strategic advantage why would you allow the opposing team to negate that advantage? There are many strategic advantages such as rockets, the sword, the shotgun, being on top of the pink room at Midship, having both snipers, or keeping an opponent’s Warthog. If I have both snipers and I see an opponent why should I let him live? Should I wait until he’s fired at me first before I have the moral high ground to return fire? Should I only use the needler? If so why did Bungie include the sniper? Or rockets? Why are there any power weapons at all? Why didn’t Bungie sell us Pong? That way it would be fair! No weapons at all just two paddles and a ball.
Spawn killing your opponent is not your problem and not doing so only harms your team. Take your pouting attitude and cross the river Styx right into Hades.
“Yeah, you won but wouldn’t have if you didn’t have rockets / sword / sniper / shotgun / combo / overshield / camouflage / spawn camp / crouch walk / banshee / wraith / warthogaO ”
Sounds like little Timmy needs their baby-poo diaper changed by their Mama. WaaaaaO waaaaO waa…
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DATE: 1/26/2006 07:32:41 AM
I think it is a great discussion to have.
I can see people arguing both sides very well. One hand, it is cheap to spawn-kill on objective games.
On the other hand, the game makes it too easy to do: why must a team always, under every condition, respawn at their base. And of course, the objective of the game is to prevent them fom scoring, so it seems to be a fair tactic.
And someone might argue that the attacking team should be more careful and not hand over all the keys to map control.
But then back to the first hand: how can this be fairplay? Who cares if the game “allows” it? I suppose baseball would allow people to hit each other with bats all day, but that’s not how it works.
We may be entering an era where the code of a game is not sufficient to determine the rules of the game. As the demand for more realistic titles with deeper gameplay increases, the ability of a game’s code to police behavior may drop. The more you approach a complete set of physics, the more you approach the real world. And maybe then, the less you can rely on a computer to control the dos and don’ts.
Or maybe not, maybe they can program a game to take these things into account…
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DATE: 1/27/2006 02:03:52 PM
Fock-
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not looking for a definative line in the sand that if you cross, you’re marked; but perhaps a better definition of what, as a clan, we define as “fair and in good sportsmanship”. As it is now, it is up to each individual person to define this for themselves. Some people think modding if fair, some don’t. Some enjoy yelling and calling people names, some don’t. If the clan has some loose “guide for conduct”, we might be able to avoid turning into what we loathe.
If we are playing assualt on Terminal, and we’re up 2-0 and it’s the final round, does the clan condone or deter the use of spawn killing the enemy at thier base?
Suppose it’s CTF on Relic, we have the lead 1-0, it’s thier first offensive round, but they’ve brought our flag to the field in front of the Relic, we keep them at bay and the flag returns, do we stay on the beach and spawn kill so they cannot even think of making any kind of push?
What if we are obviously outclassed and are being outplayed, but we get lucky and cap a flag (or bomb) and grab the lead; we push back thier first rush at the start of the final round…do we persue them to thier spawns to ensure our victory, or give them the fair fight they gave us and hunker down for thier next try?
What if each of the above games were intra-clan games? Or clan challenge games?
When is a victory more important then how much fun you have playing the game, or how good a game you give your opponents?
I dunno about you, but I’d hate to think that we’re the clan no one wants to play because they don’t want the same low-down dirty tactics you often encounter in the midst of Matchmaking.
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DATE: 1/27/2006 12:35:55 AM
Spawnkilling isn’t ethically right. Simple. In any case, a team shouldn’t allow themselves to lose every single power weapon on the map, but as I’ve never been in a position to spawn kill, I suppose I can’t talk.