Imagine [if you will] that you are a mountain climber.
Through technological innovations in rigging systems and oxygen delivery, you are able to climb higher and faster than anyone in your field. You ascend to the peak of the slope in record time. Your achievements in the sport put you on top of the mountain, above your competition. You create a new standard that climbers will use to compete with each other.
Now imagine that the people who watched you from the base-camp start taking pot-shots at you. They criticize you for the path you took to the top, they question the methods you employed to solve the problems that limited previous climbers. They even make fun of the colorful jacket you wore. They say: “Sure, you climbed to the top, but you could have done it faster.” Instead of being celebrated as the King of the Hill, you are dodging bullets fired by the laymen who don’t climb mountains. These laymen have no perspective for the rigors of battling gravity and high-altitude air, but their assault on you makes them feel somehow included. In their eyes, if they can knock you off the peak, they must be competent in their own right.
Now ask yourself this: Would you change your approach in climbing to the summit? Or would you continue doing the things you do that make you the best?
Similarly, imagine [if you will] that you are a video game developer.
Through technological innovations in programming and communications infrastructure, you almost completely banish the scourges of lag and networking errors from the pastime of online multiplayer gaming. You ascend to the peak of the market in record time. Your achievements in the field put you at the top of Xbox Live traffic reports, above your competition. You create a new standard that gamers will use to compete with each other. Even professionally, for the first time.
Now imagine that the gamers who play your title start taking pot-shots at you. They criticize you for the strategy you used to market your product. They question the methods you employed to solve problems that limited previous multiplayer games. They even make fun of you for balancing the weapons in your game. They say: “Sure, Halo2 is fun, but the pistol isn’t very accurate.” Instead of being celebrated as the King of the Hill, you are dodging bullets fired by laymen who don’t program interactive software. These laymen have no perspective for the rigors of crunching code or designing maps, but their assault makes them feel somehow included. In their eyes, if they can find flaws in your game, they must be competent in their own right.
Now ask yourself this: Would you change your approach to creating video games? Or would you continue doing the things you do that make you the best?
It has been said that “It is lonely at the top.” It has also been said that “Everyone is a critic.” The fanbase that comprises the Halo community provides nova-hot proof for both notions. For as many people who play Halo and profess to love it, there seems to be just as many people who play Halo and profess to hate it. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Does it?
But it happens.
Fan forums are often rife with criticisms of the game. Some fan forums are even singularly devoted to the notion that Halo2 Sucks. There are a lot of passionate gamers out there who carry an idea for how Halo2 could be better; or at least different in a way that better embraces their own preferences, and they aren’t shy about telling anyone who will pay attention. Strangely enough, some “fans” think that if these criticisms are spoken often enough and/or loudly enough, that the developers at Bungie will listen – as if someone in the State of Washington will read their comments and say:
“Holy shit! There is a polite young man in Cincinnati who is sore at us for balancing the pistol. EVERYONE! Drop everything that you are doing and get to work on a new Update Patch. Stat!”
I am sorry to report, friends, that this is not the way of things. You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion. In the fine nation that we call America, you can say just about anything. You can go on television and tell Dr. Phil that you are a lesbian. You can go to Halo2Sucks.com and bitch about the accuracy of Jackal Snipers. Censorship is not the aim of this post. Allow me to say that again: Censorship is not the aim of this post.
Devoting mass amounts of energy to hating something that you do on a regular basis is oxymoronic. It’s corrosive to your psyche. As a gamer, you have two options that will have any real impact on the events of your life:
Option #1. Play Halo 2
Option #2. Don’t
Don’t like the game? Take your Oddball and go home, Junior. I can assure you that Bungie has some idea about what they are doing. Just because you might not agree with them does not mean that they suck.
You experienced lag in a game? Where on this Earth have you been? You certainly weren’t trying [with agonizing futility] to play Unreal Tournament with me over a networked PC. Where were you? Tripping on shrooms with Mario maybe? Welcome to the unforgiving realm of Internet-enabled Multiplayer Gaming. A place has been set for you at the table, and the feast has never been better.
You got steamed that the person who shoots first usually wins a face-off? You would be surprised by how frequently that pattern duplicates itself elsewhere. Just ask Greedo. [Actually, please don’t.] In the Old West, they called it a Quick Draw duel.
And those are just a few of the complaints that these people make. I went to Halo2sucks.com to shoplift some more. Admittedly, in the interest of satire, ‘Tied the Leader, gives itself over to intentional meltdowns in journalistic integrity. Not this time, my fair gamer. The following roster of highlights reads like a laundry list of poor sportsmanship and ungratefulness. Quite funny, even:
-I don’t spawn with a sniper rifle every time
-The pistol does not have an infinite range
-There isn’t enough cover in Burial mounds
-The grenades are too bouncy
-Paying for new maps sucks
-I don’t like dual needlers
-Lunge melee is super gay
-Vehicles are hard to stop without rockets
-Get rid of dual wielding
-The BR is a n00b gun
-The controllers break when you throw them
-The weapon spawns are horribly retarded
I wonder if the Wolf thinks the Moon listens when he howls at it.
I, for one, still think Halo 2 is one of the best games ever. This, coming from a guy who hates FPS games. I love playing it, I love the strategy and technique, I love the realism and efficiency of the gameplay, graphics, system, etc. The whiners, as far as I’m concerned, can just take their oddballs and choke on them. If the game isn’t perfect, so what? What game is? Frankly, I play a game to have fun, and Halo 2 never fails to be anything other than enjoyable.
Great writeup, DeeJ.
Hey, Bugnie made a great game..I may complain about it sometimes (I’m sure at least some of you Gunsligners have heard me grumbling under my breath during some games), but I’m going to keep playing beause it’s fun.
It’s funny you mentioned people complaining about lag, as my friends and I played a considerably laggy team training game and spent the entire game being accused of modding (This game was on midship, mind you) or briding. Alas, some people just can’t shut up and deal with lag like others.
Good job, Deej..
I read the article, and you fed out a great analogy of the situation here: it certainly does seem that people are trying to get at the best of the best: and failing, by the looks of things. But without these people, I reckon that old problems like standby, and unpunished modders would still be around.
Lag’s only the problem caused by either
A) Your connection
B) Their connection
Don’t bitch at Bungie, bitch at your ISPs: in some Asian countries 100mbps is a normal broadband speed. We look at 10mbps and think “wow”.
The people who are criticizing Bungie aren’t people who really hate them. They are people who just know that Bungie CAN do better than what they’ve done because Bungie has done great in the past. Its just that some of their gameplay changes are for the worse.
Even Bungie admitted Halo 2 is not what they wanted it to be. Just watch the the stuff on the limited edition DVD thing.
Critiscism is a way of life. No doubt about it. If it weren’t for critics, life would be a lot less then it is.
Slaggers and constant whiners however, are not critics. You want to slag Halo 2? Go slag Call of Duty. Or Mario. Or Cluedo. Or shut up and only play the games you like, rather then moaning about how you hate a game in the middle of a level 23 1 Flag CTF on Containment.
I absolutely HATE whiners.
Maybe Halo 2 wasn’t all we hoped, but hey, the Xbox wasn’t really capable of what we wanted most. Bungie were limited im what they could and could not do.
Damn annoying whiners. ]:-(
I think that all the people that are complaining just want the game exactly as they want it. All they want is their own copy of Halo 2 that Bungie made special for them, but I don’t think that’s happening any time soon. Just because one guy doesn’t like something about the game doesn’t mean everybody hates it.
And I don’t think Bungie will ever invent indestructible Xbox controller.
Great writeup.
I just have to wonder… how is bitching about fan reactions any better than fans bitching about Halo 2? If anything, the fans paid a hard-earned $50 for the game, and have the right to express their feelings on the quality of the end product. If someone feels that Halo 2 is flawed, then they have the right to say it. You certainly have the right to disagree, but not to say that they shouldn’t be talking in the first place.
I don’t think anyone really believes that Bungie will make grand changes to Halo 2 based on fan criticism… except that that’s exactly what they’ve done, in the form of the various XBL patches. And in that respect, Bungie have demonstrated a hell of a lot more maturity than “Bungie can do no wrong” folks like the author of this article. Perhaps you should apply the title of the article to yourself?
Excellent post! I love the comparison to the mountain climber and Bungie. However, I do feel you could have written it better. Haha, just kidding.
Hello,
I followed the link from HBO. I agree with you on almost everything you said. And don’t get me wrong, I love Halo2, both online and campaign, but are some things that just doesn’t make sense. Things like the plasma being weakened, but the tracer increased. The shotgun being random, even when not online. Why they took out race. Why they think assault is so awesome. It’s little things like that, that disapoint me. I feel they are things that Bungie totally dropped the ball on.
Now then, as long as a complaint is delivered in a respectable manner, it should looked at as constructive criticism. Saying “The green pistol is gay” is not respectable. Saying “I don’t really like the changes made to the plasma pistol.” is somewhat respectable.
Yes Bungie is #1 in many aspects, but if us fans didn’t pay money for their product, they wouldn’t be. Therefore if a respectable complaint is raised, Bungie SHOULD at least consider it, to keep us fans happy. I can say that I am VERY PLEASED with the way Bungie handles their fans, and I think they do pay attention to what we say. But, you can’t please everyone, all the time, however you should try.
Unlike the Mountain Climber who climbs for himself, and because of himself….Bungie is the best, for US and BECAUSE of US.
ManKitten
bungie made a good game and im glad they did it it put more behind hte chief more into his story and im glasd they did hell they even pointed out reach thank god and for all of those halo 2 sux people out there, stop whining so what if you dont spawn witha sniper rifle that makes you a noob and the pistol can never have infinte range no pistol can have infinite range oh well thats all i got nice write up dude
You’re an idiot, that’s my opinion
to say that laymen have no right to shoot at games developers is ridiculous. we are the people who play the games, and therefore shouldn’t they be made to entertain us? i loved halo ce. i thought it was (and still is, i did aotcr co-op with a mate yesterday and still had more fun than any other fps that’s come out recently, except maybe fear) one of the best games of all time. however halo 2 was not as good as the first. simple as that. the single player just wasn’t as good. maybe its because the maps felt smaller, maybe its because the way the master chief handled was different. im not gonna point fingers, but in all honesty, i had less fun playing halo 2 then halo 1. that’s why i sold it, yet still have the first game. as the multiplayer goes, the sword does make the game less fun to play. it is imbalanced, and you can’t argue with that. persoanlly i deal with it and move on. also the grenade were under powered which was something i rly missed from the first game. and the vehicles were perhaps easier to control, but they were less fun. games are for fun and halo 2 was not as much fun as halo 1. simple as that.
Response to the anonymous comment accusing me of committing the same agregious sin as the Halo Haters:
I am sorry that is the impression I gave. I would offer that I am not from the camp of ‘Bungie can do no wrong…’ I have, at times, written negative rants about elements of the game that drive me crazy – but all in good [and respectful] fun.
Anyone who has played with me knows I would be perfectly content if the sniper rifles were put on the dock, and Halo became a demolition derby game – think GTA with power armor and turrets.
We all have our opinions. The difference between me and the “fans” I described hertofore is that I am not so arrogant as to think that my opinions amount to a crusade to educate the developers at Bungie of thier shortcommings. Also, my opinions are just that. My own perception. I never imagined that I traveled the path in absolute truth in becomming a Vehicle Whore.
Allow me to say this a third time, that post was not about Censorship. The target of that rant was when one takes oneself too seriously.
I hate baseball. Did I start a website about how awful it is to play or watch baseball? No. That is the difference. Dissonance is not a worthy avenue for my energies.
I do, however, appreciate the challenge. Thank you for your contrary eloquence. No, really.
I agree with all these posts. PS, Shishka is a noob. Check the tire Shishka.
It’s silly, wasting your life’s time complaining about a work of art that took thousands of hours, tears, and stressful days to complete…when all you do is play it. Bungie has worked harder than any of us simpletons could imagine, and yet some people manage to find the hate in themselves to waste more time being unproductive in their life. What kind of person has nothing better to do than bitch about something like that??!!?
As someone who tries (and fails misreably) at some sort of game development, i know what bungie must have gone through to make such a masterpiece. Thats why it irks me when someone says “its easy to fix”. Its not like Halo 2 is coded in Basic!
I hate whiny people, Good Day :-)
DeeJ, thanks for the thoughtful response. The thing is, I suspect that the vast majority of people who complain about Halo 2 actually enjoy the game a great deal. I myself have logged countless hours on Xbox Live. It is entirely possible to both enjoy the game and recognize that it has flaws. And to remain silent about such perceived flaws would ultimately be the greater disservice to Bungie as a game developer, because user feedback is the best way to get improvements in the future.
Ignore the occasional troll who flames without reason. That’s good advice for any online interaction. But to paint all critics with the same brush, to label them as “whiners” or “haters,” is to remove the critical process from the fan-developer interaction, and we will all suffer for it. If we as a community give the consensus that “good enough” is worth our time and money, then developers will have no reason to go above and beyond, as Bungie did for Marathon, Myth, and Halo 1.
And if I can respond to one more post in this thread…
“It’s silly, wasting your life’s time complaining about a work of art that took thousands of hours, tears, and stressful days to complete…when all you do is play it.”
Why is it silly? We’re the customers in this business transaction. Is it too much to ask that our hard-earned cash go towards a product that meets a certain standard of quality?
“Bungie has worked harder than any of us simpletons could imagine, and yet some people manage to find the hate in themselves to waste more time being unproductive in their life. What kind of person has nothing better to do than bitch about something like that??!!?”
This entire exchange has taken five minutes out of a quite productive 8-hour workday, thank you very much. It’s frankly somewhat insulting to place Bungie on such a pedestal that they are beyond reproach, while the fans, who support the whole damn enterprise, must bend over and accept whatever the Holy Developers deign to hand down.
Oh my god.. this has got to be the greatest thing I have ever read. There is so much sence in this article that everyone should take some from it. Every word and every sentence was chosen with perfection.
Bravo.. bravo.
Griffin 3542 said…
Critiscism is a way of life
True but theres constructive and destructive criticism. For the most part (not all) people complain with destructive criticism, probobly not the best way to get your message across.
People just need to remember. That my game of Halo 2 is your game of Halo 2. And my BR is your BR, my handicaps in the game are your handicaps in the game.
It all falls down to where you are, the steadyness of your aim, and how fast you can be, period.
MRGUY
Ok, I read a couple of these posts and I do agree with rick on one thing. Campaign from Halo CE was way more fun, and was a more interesting part of the plot of the Halo series than I think Halo 2 is. I played through campaign once and couldn’t bring myself to do it again, where as with Halo I couldn’t get enough. I got to the point where legendary was my playground.
However, alot of the balance issues have been fixed with the 1.1 patch. grenades are more powerful for example, as well as melees. And if you want to bitch about the sword, go ahead, let’s say its even taken out. Then its going to be the rocket. Let’s take that one out, too. Now you have to deal with the sniper whore. Where does it end?
I’ve been trying to getthis point across for ages (or at least since H2 came out) Awesome post!
SuicideX
www.dropshockradio.com
(The best Halo2 podcast)
“Why is it silly? We’re the customers in this business transaction. Is it too much to ask that our hard-earned cash go towards a product that meets a certain standard of quality?”
What? Halo 2 raised the entire standard of quality in almost every way. It has flaws and perhaps shortcomings in some people’s eyes, but really, you have to take a step back and look at all the other games and get it in perspective. Think back a year ago, when Halo 2 just came out. Did it not strike you that H2 had almost no lag? I don’t think many other games handled lag like Halo 2 over XBL did.
I bet, with time having gone by, we’ve just gotten so used to playing an A grade game that our expectations have blown out of proportion. And Bungie and every other game developer from now on will have to work even harder and faster to please the gaming masses.
“This entire exchange has taken five minutes out of a quite productive 8-hour workday, thank you very much. It’s frankly somewhat insulting to place Bungie on such a pedestal that they are beyond reproach, while the fans, who support the whole damn enterprise, must bend over and accept whatever the Holy Developers deign to hand down.”
Whatever. Sell the game. Swap it. Don’t play it.
It is always, always, always intriguing to ignite the scholars of the grid wars into a controlled burn.
Thanks for sluggin’ out, but keeping the gloves on. Thanks for keeping the flames out. Good smolder, so far. Nothing is better than starting a dialogue with legs.
Since the talk has been on a walk, allow some fine-focus back in on the original point:
Criticism is a vital dialgue. The purpose of this post was not censorship. This was a good old fashioned [and predictably verbose] pie-throw in the face of the critics who focus a mountain of effort into their critique.
Have an opinion about your video games. Love your opinion as much as you love your video games. Games are fun. That’s why they are called games.
If you start an Internet Grass-roots Movement to cure the plagues that threaten the subjective perfection of your games, well, that just seems like a lot of hard work.
I mean, you could be playing video games instead. Ones you like.
Gosh!
The only thing I have a real complaint about in Halo 2 is the lack of regional support in MatchMaking. As a gamer in Australia it is very frustrating to play against Americans and deal with Atlantic lag (which adds about half a second minimum to my lag time) in almost every single game, and the rare times I get host on our side the Americans bitch and call us cheaters – just because they have to put up with the lag I normally put up with 95% of the time! If they could prioritise the people you’re matched with so that I will mainly hit other Australians or people in my region (Asia, New Zealand) this would make the game much less frustrating.
You hit the nail on the head. It’s so simple…”Option 1: Play Halo 2, Option 2: Don’t”
Criticism helps developers improve their game. Praise does not. Someone of your apparent intelligence should fully understand that concept. Well done wasting time typing that up.
What is worse is having to climb the same mountian twice with the same people.
Loving the picture of choice :)
I’d just like to say that I wish Bungie had still given us the option to play with pistols and assault rifles and fuel rod cannons. I still love Halo 2, but every time I pop in CE, the physics engine is there to leer at me. You. Can’t. Flip. The. Bloody. Vehicles. It’s amazing to stare down a warthog coming towards you, flip it with a grenade, then take out the occupants with a pistol clip. The floatiness of the vehicles is the one thing I would change. Even if the weapons stayed the same, I’d like the vehicle movement back.
Well now it seems that the entirety of Halo2Sucks.com has turned its attention to you and is actively finding ways to exploit what you’ve said in every way imaginable. One happy fellow said:
“Allow inexperienced gamers to believe what they will. Watching those who have no clue what the meaning of balance is as it applies to a FPS trying to lecture people on what makes a good game is actually quite funny.”
Hence he takes it upon himself to criticise you as a poor gamer when he has absolutely no indication of how proficient you are at video games, the only “evidence” of this being that you play Halo 2. It is these stereotypes that spell their own downfall, and is quite shameful if anything. This lack of neither courtesy nor respect for other fellow games is degrading, and is why a lot of people fail to regard XBox gamers as competent gamers.
Nice writeup DeeJ, but the fact that pitiful people such as the above-quoted person sought to criticise you via the means of stereotype is a bad sign. Expect more of this, and in greater proportion, since there are people in the world who are just like that.
I am a veteran at Halo2sucks.com and have been visiting those forums since march 13th, 2006 and I will be dammed if I have EVER seen more than half of those comments. I find it sad that people like you can’t handle the facts about halo2 and have to make up lies about us. We say stuff like:
Spawns with the SMG make the games unbalanced
The sword is too cheap and gets people easy kills
The melee lunge is glitch and somtimes you hit someone 5 times in the back and they still walk around
Halo2 sucks. Here are my top reasons why too:
Unbalanced-I don’t care if I don’t develop games. It is common sense to know that a game will not be fun if it is unbalalced like halo2 is.
Auto-Aim-Massive auto aim makes the game too easy and calls for a whoever shoots first wins game. I don’t care about westerns and qiuck draws…This is a game and is supposed to be fun.
Those are the two main reasons why this game completly sucks. I could go on all day but I have other things to do. It just angers me that you have to be so immature and pull false quotes out of your ass and say that the members of Halo2sucks said that.
^^^
‘Spawns with the SMG make the games unbalanced’
How is it unbalanced? You are all spawning with SMGs so you all have a fair chance so it isn’t unbalanced. It’s like spawning with the pistol, yet everyone called it the biggest noob weapon you could have in halo.
‘The melee lunge is glitch and somtimes you hit someone 5 times in the back and they still walk around’
Never seen it happen. maybe it’s just lag.
‘Unbalanced-I don’t care if I don’t develop games. It is common sense to know that a game will not be fun if it is unbalalced like halo2 is.’
Every game’s unbalanced, as well as halo. If it wasn’t then everyone would’ve accepted it the first time it came out, but they didn’t. A lot of people said how crap it was and pointed out all manner of gameplay and balance issues, though you would just say they’re benefits I’m sure.
‘Auto-Aim-Massive auto aim makes the game too easy and calls for a whoever shoots first wins game. I don’t care about westerns and qiuck draws…This is a game and is supposed to be fun.’
Aim-assist. Auto-aim is when the reticle remains over the head and does not faulter in any sort of way. Aim-assist is what Halo 2 has, where the reticle follows the character at the same pace, but does not remain over the target.
And to a lot of people, it is fun. You can never have a completely fun game, as someone will always nitpick about it. Being a veteran over there, someone would think you’d get that by now.
‘Those are the two main reasons why this game completly sucks. I could go on all day but I have other things to do. It just angers me that you have to be so immature and pull false quotes out of your ass and say that the members of Halo2sucks said that.’
Because they probably have at some point. Even you saying it ‘completely sucks’ shows you’re very immature, since most people would have the brains to say ‘it’s not as good as I hoped’. It doesn’t suck just because you don’t like it.
stop arguing about a game people grow up and chill out whats done is done and nothing can be changed dont even think you can do otherwise
Holy crap! We attracted a veteran from Halo2Sucks.com. Hide the action figures.
According to SPARK, he has been patrolling those forums since March 13, 2006; which is impressive, since that is in the future!
LT Colonel Halo Hater, Sir. If you visit the forum on your favorite website entitled “Halo 2 Gameplay and Weapons” look for the thread entitled “Top Ten Complaints Since the Update”. You should be able to find it. It’s the first one listed.
There, nestled in among 13 pages of Halo Hater support group chatter, you will find everything I quoted.
I usually lie on this site. A lot, in fact. Video games [when you enjoy them] are all about roleplay. This, however, was not one of those occassions.
If anyone is the liar, it is you. We all know that you are not from the future!
Thanks for visiting Tied the Leader, a fansite. We hope you enjoyed your stay.
“i would really like to have a conversation with you about it all because not only can i dismantle your theories, but i bet that i can also change them.”
I’m sure he could do exacty the same thing to you. Chances are you’ll both be arguing forever.
“stop arguing about a game people grow up and chill out whats done is done and nothing can be changed dont even think you can do otherwise.”
Terrible grammar, but best solution ever.
If you don’t like Halo2Sucks.com so much DeeJ, why don’t you just make a Halo2Suckssucks.com?
amen brother!
He actually joined 2005. Look in his profile, or his posts. You read it wrong.
The debate over Halo 2 and it’s flaws is going to be a never ending one. When a person picks a side, they are normally fanatical about it.
I think that in any given circumstance you have to accept the game for what it is. Sure issue your complaints, but don’t drag it on. A website dedicated to the flaws of a game is dragging it on.
Bungie have been very forthright with listening to Halo 2 players, identifying and fixing issues it deems worthy of repairs.
Bungie have forums on their website (www.bungie.net) dedicated to letting them know how to improve the game, I even participated in them. They listened to the opinions and released a patch.
It is very unlikely that Bungie will release any more patches now that they are well into their next project. What does that mean? Very likely that your complaints are going to go unheard.
I have and continue to enjoy Halo 2 (online and off) and I can’t see that changing very soon.
Sure there are still flaws (I’m sure someone will even find some in this post) but I refuse to let the flaws get in the way of my enjoyment. If I find that the flaws are frustrating me, I switch off for a while and play something else.
It’s great that someone finally did this. I totally agree. Halo 2 is a great game, but if you hate it so much, just stop playing it! And a lot of the “glitches” and such are just features that some people hate… or they suck and they think that removing the “glitch” will help them. Oh, yeah, and to everyone that still bitches about it, let’s see you do better! Oh, that’s right – you can’t. I like what this guy said, too:
Lag’s only the problem caused by either
A) Your connection
B) Their connection
get ready, some random guy’s probably going to get angry at you for not caring about those flaws now.
“Because they probably have at some point.”
Who here is being immature?
“Who here is being immature?”
actually they did, as they point out in that thread. both sides are childish when I comes down to it. it’s like two babies quarelling over which one of their rattles is bigger.
Imagine you are a car manufacturer. You build and produce the car of the year. Everyone raves over it. It wins all sorts of awards and respect from the industry. Your car is world renown as one of the best in the business. People buy your car and so you build a company up that becomes known as one of the best. For 4 years you have a loyal and loving consumer base that eagerly await the next model.
Then imagine building that next model. You update the styling. You add features. It looks great. Sitting in the show room next to the original it looks better. Newer. Shinier, with more features.
Now imagine if you stepped into that car and drove it. Only to find that it doesn’t handle like you thought it would. It’s lost power. There’s glitches everywhere. Sometimes when you indicate the signal doesn’t work. The engine is sluggish and it uses too much fuel.
Now comparing a car to a video game may be a bit much. After all one costs $50USD while the other may be as much as $100,000. However imagine waiting 4 years. For something you had such high hopes for. To find that everything you expected was not to be. To find that things that made the game so great were removed and the things added only made it cheap and bad to play.
Halo 2 had such a head start on all other titles. It was always going to be a success no matter what. Some people may call those that think like me childish but I think I deserved what I waited for. Bungie deserved to give me something that was worth my loyalty and something that was worthy of the Halo name.
Your post has many faults in it.
“You create a new standard that gamers will use to compete with each other. Even professionally, for the first time.”
Where did you get this? Visit mlgpro.com. The biggest console pro gaming site. Take a look around. Halo CE was used before Halo 2s release in professional competition. As a matter a fact it was the reason for professional gaming becoming the success it is. Ask the members of mlg which game is better. You will probably be surprised that the majority prefer the older car to the newer updated version.
XBCONNECT has also been around long before Halo 2 was available to play on XBOX live.
Strangely enough, some aOoefansaO think that if these criticisms are spoken often enough and/or loudly enough, that the developers at Bungie will listen aO” that someone in the State of Washington will read their comments…
I’m sorry to say but Bungie is fully aware of Halo2sucks.com and it’s Admin teams has all but admitted visiting the site. Why wouldn’t they? It seems like the logical thing to do when you want to find out exactly why people didn’t like your product. How do you think the Auto Update came to be. Memebers from H2S were instrumental in bringing to light faults of the game so Bungie would fix some.
“As a gamer, however, you have two options that will have any real impact on the events of your life:
Option #1. Play Halo 2
Option #2. DonaO™t”
You forgot about otion 3. Fight for Halo 3 to be made the way it should. Fight and speak out so that Bungie listens. There is always an option 3. People that give up after all are not true fans.
As for your fanciful quotes from Halo2sucks. The site is public and free speech is ever present. Don’t be fooled into thinking that some comments on our site are the thoughts and feeling of all. Most of those comments I haven’t even read and I’m a long time member for 12 months.
Thanks for you time and remember.
suppressio veri, suggestio falsi (the suppression of the truth is the suggestion of falsehood)
“Halo 2 had such a head start on all other titles. It was always going to be a success no matter what. Some people may call those that think like me childish but I think I deserved what I waited for. Bungie deserved to give me something that was worth my loyalty and something that was worthy of the Halo name.”
In a way, some of your comments are childish, such as:
“Bungie deserved to give me something that was worth my loyalty and something that was worthy of the Halo name.”
The ‘Halo name’ differs from person to person, it is not some conglomerate universal standard that they were forced to meet. At the moment, the Halo name is a pretty shitty one, not because of how Halo or Halo 2 fared, but the numbers of arguments that have sprouted amongst the members.
In my view, there is no such thing as ‘the Halo name’, nor is there any particular level that it has to be. Bungie can do whatever the hell they like with it, it’s their game. For the most part, companies don’t ‘deserve to satisfy you’ nor do you deserve to be ‘satisfied by them’. They make the game, you buy it, you form your own opinion, and that’s really all that happens.
As for how a game should be made, no-one has much of a say in the matter. If it were Halo2Sucks.com’s decision, based on their mission statement, they’d try and make a re-run of Halo: CE, a game which is not free from its own criticism.
However, if the decision were to the fans and others, everyone has a say in how the game should be made or not. H2s.com does not merit any special certificate that allows them to have a greater voice than others, and other comments to be rendered completely void. A lot of people liked the formula in Halo 2, and just because one small faction complains doesn’t mean they have to have 100% say over what happens next. My opinion is that the next iteration should have a blend of both games, as well as its own elements.
A lot of people hated Halo, make no mistake about it, and Bungie experimented with new ideas to see whom else they could attract with Halo 2. Logically, the technique will be refined for the third instalment, but you will never get Halo 3 being the original again, since it had many errors of its own.
Those at Halo2Sucks.com and everywhere else have to admit that they alone do not hold a super-key solution to everything, as people will always hate the game no matter what you do. Whilst some may think doing something will make a game better, it is only in the interest that it will be better for them, which is quite a selfish act if any. So say what you want, but none of you hold sole jurisidction over how something should be done.
The thing about Halo2sucks is that you are free to post what you want. Why not come and post your feelings if you’re not allowed to on other sites.
We have power, even if you can’t see it. The power of free speech and a voice to be heard. You’re hearing it right now. You now know that people out there in the big world don’t like Halo 2. You like Bungie are fully aware of that. It’s an amazing thing, free speech. The willingness to express ones self and make their voice heard. Great things are not accomplished by the weakly spoken. Great things are accomplished by the strong in voice and passion.
Matter of opinion really, I’m used to Halo 1 and Halo 2 isn’t as good in my opinion. I play to have fun, but the others who take their rank too seriously can spoil it for the people who want to pick the game up and have fun, Bungie haven’t went completely wrong, they made a few changes that I don’t agree on, but the true spoilers of he game are people who get a kill by using all his rockets, then teabags you screaming, ‘did you like that n****r?!’ then make comments about your mother after the game, and screaming ownage, they are the true spoilers of XBL Halo 2, but Bungie didn’t help either.
That’s all my opinion, don’t flame, discuss instead.
Of course that’s a fair reason to dislike the community, though every online game tends to have that kind of crowd. You must really hate this guy then….
www.wimp.com/gamer
I have huge gripes with Halo 2. And by Halo 2, I mean the community that plays the game online. Lag, while annoying, is just a part of the game. Even that can be overcome by using smart tactics. It’s these same “peanut gallery patrons” that complain that they can’t “own noobs” all day that have some of the worst behavior I’ve ever seen in human beings.
Everybody is waiting for Halo 3. At this point, I hope Bungie’s next game ISN’T a Halo title. Move on, and let the morons have Halo 2. Bungie will keep making great games, because they know their stuff. They have for years, and a few fanboys won’t change that. (I hope. My faith is in bungie.)
“let the morons have Halo 2”
Of course you know it’s not restricted to having just morons. People who play it offline are fine with it, and they can be intelligent.
I also hope the next title isn’t Halo 3. There is such little time to make a game that so many people would want and argue for that it requires a length of downtime, when the community gets a little more realistic and nobody’s hanging on the edge of their seats for it to pop out straight away. I hope they make another game, so less people are so actively enthralled for the third and demanding its immediate release, which spelled the downfall of Halo 2.
Great writeup, DeeJ.
I can’t believe anyone complains about dual wielding. They don’t even complain that it is imbalanced, they just don’t like it. One could just as soon NOT dual wield, or play custom games with the No Duals weapon set, or go play Team Hardcore, or go play Team Armory. There are many options there.
One other thing: Complaining about dual needlers? Gimme a break. I’ve always loved the needler, but sadly it was never much use. With Halo 2, one could still argue that it is nigh useless, except when dual-wielded. Personally, I find dual needlers to be an excellent anti-sniper weapon.
Maybe that’s why these kids that complain about not always having their grubby mitts on a sniper also hate dual needlers.
Anyways, great article.
I love playing Halo:CE. I didn’t use past-tense on purpose, I still enjoy it. I also love playing Halo2, on and off-line. That doesn’t mean I think that they, or their makers, are perfect in any way. Nothing is. I’m personally not what many have called a “Halo God,” so I could complain all day long that the game is “unbalanced” and “SUXORZ!!” because I sometimes get “pwned” by rude gamers calling me “n00b.” But instead of complaining that Halo or Halo2 isn’t the game I would have made, I sit back and realize that it 1) Is just a game, and 2) Is a challenge for me to conquer.
There are two camps here:
Opinion
&
Entitlement
An opinion is: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.
Entitlement is: To have an enforceable right to claim something.
True statement: Everyone is ENTITLED to his or her own OPINION.
Now substitute the definitions:
Everyone has an enforceable right to claim his or her own belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.
I think part of the problem is the current age (and country) we live in. We lack nothing we need, and thus feel ENTITLED to anything we want. This is simply not true, nor right. I don’t care what your mommy told you, life is not fair. Grow up and deal with it.
People are raised to believe that their opinion counts more than anyone elses. When I moved here, I was shocked by the ferocious loyalty that people showed to their political party. So few people are actually open to debate, and the concept that another fully functional member of society might have an opinion that could influence their outlook.
We all struggle to be heard and feel relevent in a fast moving, digital world, and oftentimes people fill that void with a loyalty to a product, person or team.
I mean, who the f**k drives 800 miles just to watch their local college football team play in a virtually meaningless bowl? Why do it? If you didn’t show, would anyone care? Did the team thank you for going? No, but yet thousands of people made that drive last month… loyalty to lying politicians, to unthankful sports teams, to a massive gaming company – all pointless. Your game purchase should be like your political vote – pick the one that’s going to make you happiest.
If you feel Bungie screwed the pooch on H2, there are thousands of other games on a multitude of platforms. Don’t make yourself unhappy by concentrating on something that you feel ignored your needs.
For me, I was horrendously disappointed in the last three Star Wars movies – I’m sure you can appreciate that. So I don’t watch them (or bitch about them). I was much happier with Serenity, so I’ll watch that again. It’s simple.
The problem with your argument is the exact same problem all sides of this debate have had over and over, time and time again – In order to make your case look stronger, you make the other side sound like shallow and subjective morons before giving your fake-ish objective reasoning.
Many people at Bungie aren’t satisfied with Halo 2. Many others are. Guess what? Bungie employees don’t agree on everything either. This shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone.
What does make me ill are the countless Bungie zealots who think Bungie is infallible. Halo 2 is a standard-setter in MANY, MANY ways, but any sensible player can see there are missteps that must be corrected in 3.
Know what I like the Halo games? Throwing a grenade with your left hand. Man, that’s neat.
I’m serious. That was a really good idea.
aOoeHoly shit! There is a polite young man in Cincinnati who is sore at us for balancing the pistol. EVERYONE! Drop everything that you are doing and get to work on a new Update Patch. Stat!aO
Im sorry but that is just classic….ohhhhhhh how classic. Nice right up deej, keep um coming fellow gunslinger.
If halo 2 was there first game, I would thought it would be pretty good, but after halo 1 this is just unbelievable, how bad it was.
The wierdest thing is why they did things without a reason, it must have been the deadlines. And play halo 1 for one time to see how polished it is.
On a more serious note than my previous post…. yeah, I would like to see some improvements in the next installment. Deej has heard me complain quite a bit about all the graphical popups and little things that got on my nerves. Having it be on the 360 will most likely mean that the game will be beautiful. I look forward to it. My complaints about Halo 2 are purely cosmetic. Well, I still canaO™t use the shotgun effectively to save my life, and like Deej, I absolutely suck at sniping, but those are skill issues. If all the weapons were easy to use, they wouldnaO™t have made so many. Variety is the spice of life.
Did I enjoy the game? Hell yeah.
Did I think the single player campaign was a bit short? Sure did.
Was the multiplayer experience on Xbox live amazing? Absolutely!
Why am I not playing Halo 2 anymore on Xbox live? Well, I got reeeeally tired of the BS being shouted into the headsets. That and I also broke DeejaO™s headset by accident at his LAN party and replaced it with my own. I have yet to get a new headset and I refuse to play online without one. IaO™m sure DJ thanks me for the latter, although, he and I had great success playing Unreal Tournament with our speakerphones on. But I digressaO
BungieaO™s gonna do what the want to do. They did a great thing by creating Halo. ItaO™s their baby, not ours. We just get to play with it. Did George Lucas restore the scene where he aOoetotally no-scopes and pwns GreedoaO™s N00B A$$aO (ugh) in A New Hope after all of the petitions and bitching? Not a bit.
With the popularity of Halo 2 as monumental as it is, theyaO™ve obviously appeased more fans than offended. TheyaO™re not stupid. They make little tweaks and improvements all the time to get a happy medium for little problems that have popped up. You certainly canaO™t please everyone but I have to roll my eyes at sites like halo2sucks.com because there are much better things to spend your time on.
Nice post and comments. I do not believe that Halo 2 completely sucks. It has flaws. Halo 1 was better, but the problems with Halo 2 are more geared towards the fact that everything is easier.
1. Sword – Easy kill weapon. 1 hit kill. Too easy to get to in the levels, infinite battery. My biggest complaint.
2. Duals – Easy to hit target, kills entirely too fast.
I hear a lot of people complain about the old pistol. Yea, it hit hard, but it also took a fair bit of practice to use well. Halo 1 was a game of true skill. The best would win nearly every time. Not so in halo 2. usualy the winner is the guy who held onto the sword or something cheap like that. Maybe its just me, but that isnt what the game used to be about.
Whiners can’t annoy you if you don’t pay attention to them, but these days it looks like whiners are getting a HELLUVA lot of attention.
And I defend the whiners. Sure their complaints are often unreasonable or just plain stupid, but face it, PEOPLE ARE STUPID. All stupid people are entitled to their own stupid opinions, and if you decide to listen then you decide to be annoyed.
That’s the best defense money can buy.
“Your honor, my client is stupid.”
This post has been removed by the author.
sigh I just ordered the Halo 2 Playtonics headset. THERE! Ya happy?
As with most comments, I think Halo 2 is a fantastic game, zoom pistol or no. I noticed that at Halo2sucks.com that they mentioned it being made in “10 Months” which isnt true, the hard workers at Bungie worked on Halo 3 for the full 3 years, it was Combat Evolved that was made in 10 months.
I also think that the Magnum was a good change, just becuase you cant kill people in 3 shots doesnt mean you have to whine. All the people who support that site are all people who probably were really good at Halo 1, but then when Halo 2 came out they were getting slaughtered at parties. What a waste of time,effort, and money that site is.
Halo 2 does have some issues, but I’d bet mine are different from a lot of other people’s.
To me, it felt like Halo 2 sacrificed a lot of it’s SP focus for an MP one. Halo 1’s MP was fun enough, but it was the SP campaign (and co-op) that kept me coming back to it.
When 2 came out, I blew through the SP campaign about once, and that’s it. The campaign just didn’t feel like it had the attention devoted to it that the MP did.
No offense to the good people at Bungie, but when the inevitable Halo 3 comes along, I hope the attention to SP is closer to 1 than it was 2.
My god you must love bungie a lot to write this. Like it or not customers (i mean people who buy a product) have the irght to complain about it. You pay $$$ you do what you want. I play online fps since a lot of years on PC. And i must say a game never ever frustrated as much as Halo 2 not even Counter Strike. Yes latency can be found in all online games. But on PC with dedicated servers everyone have latency. With Halo 2 the guy who host has absolutely NO LATENCY at all. If the hoster is good he can make the difference. I’m an average player and when i host in team slayer i’m like a juggernaut people can’t stop. It’s just not fun for the other team when they hit you before but die. I can’t even remember the number of time in halo 2 i pressed B button before, saw my Spartan hit the opponent first but died because the other player was host and i had latency. When you host people fall like stupid fly. This games had so bugs it was laughable. Super jumping, flags throught wall, standby, dummy, etc …
Microsoft and Bungie decided to not provide a server browser with Halo 2 so if your friends are not online you much do matchmaking. Their mistake not mine. I paid 70$ CAD for the game i have the right to complain.
This is one of the less balanced online fps i have never played in my life. n00b combo alone break most of the fun once you reach level 30. It’s like a game of n00b combo and sniper. Very fun.
It’s obvious that you’re a Halo 2 fanboy… At least a biased view is of minimal interference. Look at your links! You’ve got Halo2Cheaters.com… If you get cheated, quit playing the damn game. 2Old2Play is a non-competitive, casual, Halo2-ish community. Major Nelson.com is a pointless propaganda-emanating blog.
Nothing wrong with casual gaming. You’re obviously one, and I respect that. However, do NOT infringe upon competitive gaming territory. Your article does just that, and attempts to justify Bungie’s noobification of a once-competitive FPS. You also weakly attempt to discredit the competitive gamers with red herring quotes.
You fail.
“My god you must love bungie a lot to write this.”
“It’s obvious that you’re a Halo 2 fanboy… At least a biased view is of minimal interference.”
Now who’s being stereotypical…..
Like it or not customers (i mean people who buy a product) have the right to complain about it.
“You pay $$$ you do what you want.”
If we went by that notion, then game companies can do what they want, since they also pay $$$, and the added bonus of time and education for those jobs.
[quote]2Old2Play is a non-competitive, casual, Halo2-ish community. Major Nelson.com is a pointless propaganda-emanating blog.[/quote]
Then again, so is Halo2Sucks.com. You can’t get much more propaganda-emanating than the main admin having a “H1 > H2” shirt on, or one of their main topics being “Post all anti-Halo2 pics/sigs here”. Regardless, all of those sites accept various opinions, for such is the point of forums.
“Your article does just that, and attempts to justify Bungie’s noobification of a once-competitive FPS. You also weakly attempt to discredit the competitive gamers with red herring quotes.”
But you think you have the sole privilege of stereotyping every player in the Halo 2 community as a n00b, and inadvertently portraying Halo players as “gods” of gaming. Can’t get much lower than that, you should have at least made other people aware of the fact that it was opinion. Being a big hater of his post, you should have at least seen that.
It’s quite obvious this blog has brought out the worst in some people. Best to just let it die and remain as a reminder for others than to continue with pointless insults.
All I know is that for every frustrating game I’ve played on Halo 2, I’ve had 3 fun games. I’m amused by the host argument though. It can factor into a game and often does, but the bennefits are legion as well. The reason that Halo 2 is far less laggy than any other online game is due to this configuartion. In trying to solve the issue, Bungie has of course opened up another can of worms. It’s unfortunate, but few seem to realize that the reason the game is less laggy is due to this config. Damned if you do, damned if ya don’t. I prefer it as it gives me far fewer laggy games and I’m willing to live with Host advantage over lag any day of the week.
“I understand full well why some people feel that Halo CE is better than Halo 2. Their points are valid BUT (and here is the caveat) are a matter of PREFERNCE and relate in no way to QUALITY. Zero. None. Nadda. Zip.”
Just so you all know, this comment is correct. Quality does not boil down to professional gaming, nor how expertly-skilled you are, it comes down to the enjoyment of the gamers, and a lot of people enjoy it.
A lot of people just play their games for fun, getting on any time of the day and just kicking back and LANning. They don’t want to have to sit forward in their seats, fists clenched, sweat creasing their heads and practically biting their fingers off in frusration every time they die. It’s certainly not a healthy habit, and people who just relax and take the game as it goes are fine.
The other sides of the audience, be them older or younger, may just be family or casual players also, who don’t want to have to sit there 24/7 in order to get anywhere. It really boils down to who you are. If you’re a serious critique who wants an overwhelmingly serious challenge, Halo 2 is probably not your game. However, if you’re anyone else, feel free to play.
If you want a gun with a 2x zoom and kills in 3 headshots, pick up a battle rifle.
If you see someone, just shoot them first, the only reason the person who shoots first wins is because you are of equal skill level. Get over it.
If you don’t like that the sword kills in one hit, don’t walk into it. Here is a list of other weapons that can kill in one hit: sniper rifle, beam rifle, shotgun, plasma grenade, frag grenade(if well placed) Splatter from a vehicle, Scorpion Tank, Wraith, shooting a plasma core, melee in the back, rocket launcher. I may have missed some, but the point is, if you can find a way to avoid being killed by all of these weapons, maybe there is a way to avoid being killed by a sword. When I was a beginner, the sword would always win the match. I remember getting a guaranteed running riot when I picked up the sword, but as I got better, people started shooting me while they backed up. What the hell? Don’t they know I am supposed to kill them in one hit?
I say, if you don’t like the advantages/disadvantages of certain weapons in the game, why don’t you learn to exploit them like everyone else?
-Ballistic
What makes Halo:2 better than Halo:Combat Evolved?
I have read several “reasons” as to why this is:
Realism
Gameplay
Graphics
And some others i really dont feel like laughing at.
“Halo 2 is better becaus eits more realistic”
Dont even begin to kid yourself about this. Sure its realistic until you actually turn the game on and are confronted with aliens and you play the role of a genetically enhanced super soldier not to mention the rest of the game…the most realistic thing in both ‘Halo’ titles is the trees and rocks which exist in the game.
“Halo 2 is better because it has better graphics”
This is an argument that seperates gamers from game playing morons, which i’m afraid to say anyone who beleives this is.
Graphics dont make a game better is it any coincidence that most hardcore beat em’ up gamers prefer the likes of Streetfighter to Tekken?
“Halo 2 is better because it has better gameplay”
Please i beg of you point out this better gameplay because i’d sure as hell like to see it.Is it the Dual-Weilding? No it cant be that…the fact that by aiming in someones general direction and holding down two triggers for an insanely easy kill kind of ruins that…as does the rigged weapoon spawns where one team can grab a rocket launcher on Battle Creek (or whatever its called now) and whore it till it runs out of ammo then never drop it until they are sure they will get the respawn and the same goes with the sniper rifle these “power weapons” as they are known as are extremely easy to use and wont give the enemy a chance to get them if you spawn closest.
I have to go now but rest assured i will post something else and if anyone wants to contact me so i can tear apart any pro halo 2 argument you have feel free to email me at:
Seidon_2K6@Hotmail.com
-Seidon
Halo 2 is an imbalanced piece of trash that takes little skill. Halo 2 has a large amount of aim-assist, SMG fights are pretty much “shoot first and win!” The fact that as useless of a weapon as the SMG is the default starting weapon makes absolutely no sense and only adds to Halo’s imbalance.
I think it’s a load of crap that you’re saying we shouldn’t fault Halo for being laggy. Off-host Battle Rifling someone from one side of Midship to the other is a waste of ammo, but even if you DO manage to shoot your enemy, your slow rate of fire gives your enemy plenty of time to hide and let his shields recharge (but that’s another discussion.) Host has a HUGE advantage over people off-host. Host can use his BR at longer distances and the shotgun actually works. I’ve played other Live games such as Crimson Skies, Splinter Cell’s Versus mode, Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow, and Battlefield 2, and NONE of these games lag like Halo 2. I can shoot enemies from distances I could never dream of in Halo 2 without host.
Another gripe for me are the weapons. Over-powered weapons are easier to use in Halo 2 than in Combat Evolved (rockets can lock on to vehicles, sniper is easier to use due to large amounts of aim-assist and Halo 2’s weapons lack any range, Plasma Pistol is near impossible to dodge) and the newer Energy Sword takes no skill, while the normal weapons have been weakened from their CE counterparts (SMG doesn’t compare to the Assault Rifle’s range and power, Pistol has a faster rate of fire than the Battle Rifle, Plasma Rifle in Halo 2 lost it’s most distintive feature, the stun effect, etc.)
Strafing in Halo 2 isn’t nearly as effective as it was in CE because the characters move ridiculously slow compared to CE, and Halo 2’s large aim-assist makes it obsessively easy to shoot a moving target.
CE>>>>>>>>2
^ word
agreed….. to a point
If you shoot first you win, but you have to make your self the one to shoot first. Be smart. This write up is pure genius and 100% true. So stop bitching, cuz u have never “climbed the mountain” so to speek.
“bungie, smarter than you?” Dumbest post I’ve ever seen. Just because the consumer buys a product and enjoys it, doesn’t mean they relinquish their right to criticize it’s faults. And Halo 2 has faults. Many faults. Actually, I’ve stopped playing it because of them. Guess what I’m playing right now? Original Halo, campaign! (and online with xbc)
halo: pwnz
halo 2: pwnz
Halo 3: is going to pwn.
why do people complain so much? i mean the halo series is far and away the best fps series, and possibly the best game series, that has ever come out. its got it all. you cant tell me you dont become the mc when you play campaign. i measure how good a games story is by when i start caring about the characters. i cared.
Why do people insist on using words that sound like pig latin? You got “Powned” is the most translucent word to stupidity. Another word I always here is “rape.” Why do other guys always insist that they are sexually forcing themselves on other guys in video games? I guess the glue smokers have grown up and had babies… pass the Elmers BoB!
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/09/2006 07:23:25 PM
“I hear a lot of people complain about the old pistol. Yea, it hit hard, but it also took a fair bit of practice to use well. Halo 1 was a game of true skill. The best would win nearly every time. Not so in halo 2. usualy the winner is the guy who held onto the sword or something cheap like that. Maybe its just me, but that isnt what the game used to be about.”
The problem isn’t the balance issues in halo2. The problem was the imbalance issues of Halo1. Don’t get me wrong, I loved CE and I loved the pistol, but you have to admit that the pistol was a lot imbalanced for being a pistol. You say it took a fare amount of practice to use. I disagree, I picked it up farely quickly. And if you didn’t think that Halo was about controlling the power weapons, then you never really took the game that seriously. Or you’ve never seen someone use grenades to get the rocket and the sniper on Hang ‘em. Although, I don’t understand why the sword isn’t limited ammo like everything else in the game, but I accept that for what it is. Part of the game.
“To me, it felt like Halo 2 sacrificed a lot of it’s SP focus for an MP one. Halo 1’s MP was fun enough, but it was the SP campaign (and co-op) that kept me coming back to it.
When 2 came out, I blew through the SP campaign about once, and that’s it. The campaign just didn’t feel like it had the attention devoted to it that the MP did.”
I couldn’t have said it better, and believe me I tried. Look back in these comments and you’ll see me talk about the exact same problem. Alot of it was the plot and how the Master Cheif was grotesquely heroic. I mean, sure, he’s supposed to be a badass, but to risk ones own life as one of the few hopes for mankind in the war against the Covenant, to jump out of a ship, with a bomb, and somehow time your jump so that you fly right into the path leading into the center of an enemy ship, then activate the bomb which had very little time left, and push off somehow miraciously timing this jump to land right on top of a drop ship just as the covenant ship explodes behind you is a bit much. And alot of it was gameplay issues I didn’t like.
I still think Fock said it best
“I understand full well why some people feel that Halo CE is better than Halo 2. Their points are valid BUT (and here is the caveat) are a matter of PREFERNCE and relate in no way to QUALITY. Zero. None. Nadda. Zip.”
Another words, Halo2 isn’t Halo1. They are seperate and guess what, you can play either one you want. I really do appreciate the fact that Bungie pays attention to what we as consumers and fans of their games feel should be done about issues. And I appreciate the people that complain about these issues in a sensible, calm, constructive way. And I think all Deej was saying was he really gets ticked when he hears the destructive criticism come into play, especially from 10 year olds who are brought up with a silver spoon in hand.
This is all I have to say. Thankyou to those who actually have a level head out there.
PS I expected better from OGRE 1. To say I should quit playing the game if i get cheated. Wow, I don’t think anyone should give up that easily. And to use the phrase (cause its not a word) “noobification”....seriously?
There are only two possible solutions…either you are not really Ogre 1, and that would mean you are a moron for impersonating a pro gamer and trying to give an opinion for him. Or you are Ogre1, and in that case, my friend, you just lost a fan.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/08/2006 07:08:10 AM
Allow me to throw some more gas on the fire with an unrelated anaology.
I’m an actor by trade and I’ve had to suffer endless arguments as to why such and such is a great actor by people that have never acted a minute on stage or in front of the cameras.
I should say that I am a vetran actor. I’ve got 29 years of experience on stage logging thousands of hours on stage in hundreds of productions. I know summin bout actin.
But EVERYONE feels that because they’ve seen a play or a movie that they could do it better. My god, the times I’ve had to listen to some yokle expound on the mastery of Steven Speilberg! Steven is good, yes. But at the end of the day his product is mass consumer pablum for a nation of infantile consumers that want sugary goodness for what passes for substance in this age.
Weather or not you like Speilberg is not the issue. If you, the consumer of his product do not understand the building blocks of what makes a story and how you build that on stage or film, you arguments are about as meaningful as a baby yacking up breakfast. You are entitled to like whatever you want but that does not grant you any qualification to offer anything meaningfut to the argument. Your opinions are what are called: ‘an unqualified opinion’.
All of us that play Halo 2 and critisize the game are putting forth unqualified opions. The only way you can make an argument mean anything is to frame it with criteria and then examine that criteria with an unbiased discussion. So, when I read consumers bitching about Halo 2 – most are completely uncontaminated with criteria or debate.
And there is another fallacy floating around these arguments: that if that many people think something is wrong – it must be. Nope. Popularism matters only to Marketing Executives and bears no relation to quality in any way. What Halo2sucks.com indicates is that we have a nation of pampered spoiled children that scream bloody murder if they don’t get their way (see google chocolate milk). These pustulant little shits should get a backhand to the mouth for their bitching.
I understand full well why some people feel that Halo CE is better than Halo 2. Their points are valid BUT (and here is the caveat) are a matter of PREFERNCE and relate in no way to QUALITY. Zero. None. Nadda. Zip.
This difference is easily seen if you were to go to the shooting range. Some folks prefer to head over to the traps to shoot some skeet, chat about the weather and take a leisurely stroll. Other prefer the range where they hunker down with their bushmaster or remmington and take carefull aim at a small white target 100 yards down the way. Both are very different games and some prefer one over the other. But preference has no realtion to QUALITY in any way.
So, you Haters are free to bitch about your preferences but it has nothing to do with the Quality of Halo 2. Nothing. Sorry to bust your little logic bubble, but you are entirely wrong in that assessment. Your only option is to play Halo CE on a LAN and leave Halo 2 to the rest of us.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/07/2006 03:25:46 PM
wow, way to do something controversial!! i mean, i was just being a regular joe until i read your blog and decided that it would be great to start flaming bungie, flaming others, and flaming my pants. i like halo2. i like halo1. what i like most about halo isn’t the game balance at all, the glitches, the bounces, the you name its. what i like about halo is the way in which it brings gamers together for a good time. halo1 was great primarily (and of course you may disagree) because it brought me and my friends together for a great match of multiplayer on one box. i played with friends. i played with men i trust. i played to have fun.
enter XBL…
some of that dimension has changed. now, there’s anonymity. now, there’s a pissing contest. now, there’s a lot of pride on the line. this is why, everytime, when i play a custom game, i’m having more fun and less stress.
the dimension of halo, and i might be willing to argue, the dimension of gaming itself, that is most enjoyable is the community. if h2sucks is your community—fantastic! if you have a great clan—sweet! if you love to mod—do it in a custom please!
halo is about a ring peeps…all are welcome and equal at the table…r e s p e c t, that is what it means to me!! good game.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/06/2006 08:33:01 AM
Sonic, stop being a baby, get yourself a headset, and get your ass back into the clan. We don’t play with screaming little kids anymore. We just play with ourselves, like Fock taught us.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/05/2006 01:07:06 PM
nice post vvv. i agree competely. i waited and waited for halo 2 to come out, went to the store when it opened in the morning and played it all day. and yeh i was dissapointed. anyhoo i didn’t rly complain, its still a decent game. but yes, i rly do hope they make halo 3 with some of these comments in mind. AND YES THE FLOATY PHYSICS KICKED ASS! AND THE SHELLS ON THE GROUND, AND THE….
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/05/2006 07:45:44 AM
Well, I dont think he could have done any better. I love the fact that some people still manage to get an intelligent conversation started these days, even online. I went to visit halo2sucks.com. I saw the opening banner on the google search… “Halo 1 > 2. ... Current Talking Point. Intentions. It is apparent to most now
that the level of skill involved in Halo: Combat Evolved was a fluke. ...” Erk? Yeargible? My brain exploded reading that. Stupid much? The game is the game. Things will change, things wont change. People will bitch, People will accept. Either way, it turns into a headache for some of us. If there is a problem, YOU learn to code, program, make the graphics, AI design, ect and fix a ripoff of the game for yourself. Then, it’ll be tailored to your tastes, and you’ll be happy. Then it’ll be one less person to make our ears bleed. Otherwise, it’s been said before. 1) Play Halo 2. 2) Dont play Halo 2. And as for that third option? If you do play, dont complain. Comment? Yes. Bitch? Nah. What I can say for yall, is that I never have lag issues when I play over a LAN. HAHA!!! Kidding, I’m just to cheap to buy XBox Live. Lol. But really. Dont wanna hear the haters? Sick of crazy fanboys touting the game? Come play WARHAMMER 40,000!!! (I play Tau) YAY!!! No graphical glitches (it all depends on your painting skill) no tactical issues (cant command troops? then you lose) and best of all, no online required. They’re models for petes sake!! Lol. Now that I’ve touted my silly hobby over Halo 2, I’ve got a fresh batch of assembled models to prime and some friends to pwn in slayer while the paint dries. Then we’ll all go have ice cream. lol. Nice job getting us thinking DeeJ. High five for you. And Blue Oyster Cult had it wrong with Dont Fear the Reaper… I am that Reaper… the DUAL PISTOL REAPER!!! YARHGG!!! Lol. Happy thursday all. I love Halo 2.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/05/2006 07:11:11 AM
Looks like things have calmed down to a more reasonable boil here. Gladly.
I was suprised when the dialogue turned to personal attacks and threats of violence. You would think that critics would be a little more tolerant of criticism. Sometimes, you only have to give someone a little rope for them to hang themselves.
At any rate, this have been fun. Strange, though, that this forum draws dozens of comments to a flame war, and only draws a handful of comments on an article about something like a charity LAN party.
I guess gamers thrive on conflict.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/05/2006 01:16:56 AM
Well said. At least there are people out there who understand that neither side is completely right.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/05/2006 12:01:49 AM
everyone can find something wrong with halo 2. personally i hate the smg, but the only people that i hate are those that always bitch about how it affects gameplay. have you every played Perfect Dark with the gun that shoots through any surface. i still played the shit outta that gamed and didnt moan or complain once, and this was when i was a timmy
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 10:15:59 PM
You’re generally right, but I maintain something.
Just because someone is a layman doesn’t mean that their criticism is automatically useless. Sometimes a developer is too close to the game to really get a sense of what they need to fix. They depend on the gamers for this to a certain extent.
I mean, look at the initial update, they looked saw what people were complaining about and evaluated whether to change it or not. These were mistakes on their part because if they hadn’t believed the game was fine, would they have shipped it?
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 09:20:24 PM
i read about 4 or five paragraphs and can only say one thing. you are a moron. there are so many blatantly incrrorect things that you have said that i want to cry. if you had said that to my face, i might have punched you because you said it all in a way that made you look like you know what you are talking about. i would really like to have a conversation with you about it all because not only can i dismantle your theories, but i bet that i can also change them. for now, please never post anything on the internet again because like i said earlier, you are a moron. and no, i am not being to harsh.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 09:34:36 PM
He actually joined 2005. Look in his profile, or his posts. You read it wrong.
own3d…..?
still, just as many people at halo2sucks.com make as stupid mistakes as that. no ones free from it.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 07:31:16 PM
My god! I love this article! Kind of sad, but those complaints are used. I think it might have something to do with cult appeal. I mean, Bungie has had some massive cult hits- Marathon, Myth, PiD, even Oni had a big following—And Halo is a cult hit in the sense that people who love it completely and people who hate it hate it completely. Imho it seems like a lot of people jumped on the “Halo 2 sucks” bandwagon… Easily the best console shooter of all time, probably the best shooter of all time, maybe the best game of all time, Halo/Halo 2 are insane.
Anyway, I loved this article…
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/24/2006 06:23:20 PM
Geez….
You h2 lovers say the exact opposite of what is true. I beg of you to SHOW me, not TELL me, how the weapons are balanced. I’ve played both games enough to know that halo 2 is about spawn and weapon control, while halo 1 focuses on skill. This is the only problem I have with this game, and it is the most important thing. I really dont care about everything else. The multiplayer gameplay is what I’m getting at. You cant possibly convince any logical person that the h2 weapons system is balanced. Look at this…
http://rapidshare.de/files/3281737/balance2.wmv.html
Clearly, this game is about weapon whoring. Your starting weapon is so incapable in combat that you must find something else. And what if there is nothing else? All the weapons are taken?? Then the game is over, there’s absolutely no chance of winning, b/c there is no true test of skill. I beg one of you to make a single video that proves that h2 > h1, as far as the weapons are concerned. Don’t just blindly defend it w/out good reason and some kind of proof, since all you have are your words… which ultimately are meaningless.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 05:21:19 PM
The original post is very elegant and effective, but the logic originally used is flawed; the analogy concerns the producer, the “climber”, that is, Bungie. It concerns the work Bungie has done and continues to do, and their motivation for continuing or altering their course.
The problem is, however, in debating the quality of the game aO” or in fact most art forms aO” in part or in whole, the creators are irrelevent. It makes no difference whether J. R. R. Tolkein was inspired by World War 2 to write The Lord of the Rings, nor how difficult it was for Russel Crowe to learn the violin for his part in Master and Commander, and it makes no difference how hard, how long, or how carefully Bungie worked on Halo 2. We can appreciate the work, or we can scoff at the laziness, but the fact is that no matter what went into the creation of the game, it does not change what the game is.
The argument, also, that most game players can’t themselves actually program a game, is a non sequitur; being a programmer does not grant a transcendent authority on what makes a game good.
I realize that most people who complain about Halo 2 do in a somewhat absurd, and generally exaggerated way. Many assert that the existence of a few minor or moderate flaws, the entire majesty of Halo has been reduced to garbage. These sorts of people, of course, are trolls, and best ignored.
My stand is that Halo 2, just as its predessesor, is a great game, and that any gamer should be able to appreciate that. My stand is also that, aside from the existence of Live multiplayer (a technological, rather than artistic, asset), Halo is the better game. Now I could go into detail about why that is my belief, but I don’t think it’s that important; the games are pretty similar, after all.
As someone who (clearly) is involved in conversation and debate about games and the quality of them, you must accept the logic of some (however few) of the complaints; while many things (the inclusion of the Sword, the balancing of the Pistol, etc) are wide open to debate, there are some anomalies in Halo 2 that are almost absurd in their obviousness; why don’t grenades travel nearly as far as they used to? Why does the Shotgun fire a random number of bullets, and at an emormously reduced range? Why do all melees include a short lunge? Those are some relatively minor examples, sure, but there are much greater ones that are almost as one-sided: the inclusion of boss-battles, the tampering with the vehicles handling, and making it so that you can’t have more than two of certain weapons in mutliplayer games, to name a few.
No matter good a game is, it will serve to make the flaws stand out even more. And those flaws that were not present in the original Halo tend to stand out like a sore thumb.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 04:26:04 PM
I love people who complain about lag. I mean, yeah, its frustrating, but if you ever played halo1 over XBC, you would know its almost non existent at this point. I always want to take them on there and get them in a game so that they see what real lag is like.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 03:08:33 PM
Wow. Very well spoken. That’s an amazing article. Many kudos to you. I’m glad you actually took time to take the pieces apart and smash them one at a time. You can’t argue with the logic you just typed. _ Good job.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 03:00:36 PM
Some good points, but the criticism has done some good. Look at 1.1, and the pro lists, if not for the laymen’s shouts from the bottom of the mountain we might not have seen what these good changes/additions to Halo 2. Of course, that was when a number of legitimate complaints were leveraged against the game.
What goads me is the complaints that have no substantiation. For example the melee lunge complaint. I love the concept of the lunge, and I have never seen an decent criticism against it, what most critisicm involves is the times where you “miss.” Which is a seperate issue, related to hit detection, and lag. I wish better care was put into hit detection of melees, but I like the lunge it adds some strategy to the melee, and can pull you out of a jamp in an emergency.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, that I like criticism, and I think criticism has made halo 2 better, but whining for whinings sake accomplishes nothing. It’s a fine point, but I didn’t feel the difference in your post.
Char
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 02:22:55 PM
Deej, good write up, you sanctimonious bastard.
Whining is for the birds. The game is great. Goldeneye was great. Contra was great. Could Contra have been better? In retrospect, obviously, yes. It could have been Halo. But they did there best, and the whole ARTFORM has evolved, rather quickly.
I am very grateful for what we’ve got, and big ups to Bungie for providing us all with an unbelievable online platform for gaming.
Campaign was ok, but I don’t play H2 for the campaign. As far as I’m concerned, they can release H3 without a campaign.
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/04/2006 12:46:16 PM
I have to agree the ONLY ball that bungie dropped with Halo 2 was online co-op but im still not bitching about the game good observation and GOOD CALL
EMAIL:
URL:
DATE: 1/10/2006 01:05:09 PM
Ballastic is quite correct regarding the sword. Part of the game is to use your head. Running into a room on Foundation without looking around a corner is not using your head. Many time the guy with the sword is going to pwn. But if your smart he can be killed. I almost always have stickies selected. If I’m out of stickies, I go lookin for some. Stickies are the best defense against a sword. Next up is grenade and smg while backing away from sword (not fogetting to jump so it’s hard to get that reticle red.
Wow, imagine that. A game that rewards players for being smart.
its funny that every1 says how bad h2 is when compared with hce. not to long ago i decied 2 take a trip down memorie lane and play the hce multiplayer.it wasnt even that fun it was just spawn in front of enemy 3 pistol shots and ur dead again. so altohugh hce’s campaign was better h2’s multiplayer destroys hce’s multi.
and wat i find even funnier is their is yet 2 b a better multiplayer experience. even including 360 games far cry is intence lag battlefeild is sniper shotgun and dont even get me started on the slow motion pdz.so i say if like h2 play it if u dont fun dying in 3 shoots, laging like crazy,or being sniped by a shotgun.Well first off super kudos to who ever made this, your a very smart and wise man.
Well yes halo2 has its “flaws” but most are just too small to care about, or things you cant fix (Lag, hackers). Each halo game has its downfalls and upcomings, the thing is nomatter how bad halo2 seems it’s still #1 on xboxlive, and sold more copies then most movies did.
You see most compliants people have are just easily defeated
“Smg starts are unbalanced”
Sorry but most games are Battle Rifle start, you see SMG starts are so every weapon has a change to be used, how many times in halo1 did you have a pistol and said “Let me drop this 4 shot pistol, and replace it with a 15+ shot plasma rifle”.
You either have a powerfull gun to give you a good chang, but give up other weapons being used, and of course Pistol whoring (pretty much everyone using a pistol…play halo PC)
Really halo1 default starting gun was the Plasma Pistol, and people say the SMG is bad, try taking down a tank, sniper and warthog with a plasma pistol.
SMG is a good gun, it could have been better with a longer range, or no/less recoil. But dont whine, just use to use the SMG, plus custom games are fun!!!!
__
“The game itself is so unbalanced, halo2 is all about nooby guns”
Sorry buddy, i really wish i could have quoted a “forum ninja” from bungie, who made a very good saying. It went something like
“A lot of games are not balanced, football is not balanced, baseball is (really) unlanced, golf is unbalanced” “You see no video game is balanced, or every gun would take out eachother in the same amount of shots, all guns would be super simmlar, and everyone would run around with the same weapon, or B symetrical maps WITH NO WAY to overcome or outbeat/rank your enemy”
Balance is not about all weapons being equel, or the game gets boring, a guy with Rocket can be taken out by a Battle rifle, and of course a Battle rifle guy can be taken out by a rocket. Snipers dont have infinite bullets, and shooting them makes them go off scope, 3 guys can take out a sniper IF THEY USE STRADEGY TO DO SO.
THINGS TO REALIZE
1-Halo2 is a team game, ide agree Free For All halo1 was a lot better, but teamgames, mostyl assault, CTF etc, are a lot more balanced, and skillfull.
2-If halo1 was halo2, and halo2 was halo1 people would think halo1 (which would be halo2) sucks, becouse they would most likely say
1-”What the fuck up with the ending, this is halo a FPS not a racing game”
2-”Wheres the arbiter, wow bungie is gay”
3-”Nice weapon upgrades, but this pistol is too powerfull
4-”Why cant i drive the wraith”
So please just stop halo2sucks.com vets, noobs and pros. Your complaints wont help halo3, bungie wont turn halo3 into halo1….unless they would downgrade the graphics, pysics, AI, make the chief i nan old suit…hey lets add HEALTH PACKS TOO (sarcasm)
Nice one. Some one is allowed to not like somethings in a game, but a lot of people go way too far.(aka complaining)
Good metophar (sp.)
Hi i’m Justin from Halo2sucks.com
I am a long time member of the forums and to me it seem that you came to the site with a bad idea of what the site was gonna be like already. It seemed you ignored all the good post and looked for stuff you can use against us.
But like you said. We live in a great country named America where everyone has an opinion.
Being a moderator at Bungie.net, and also a member of Halo2sucks.com, my personal view is of course (just a little) bias towards Halo 2. I enjoy the game on occasion. But I don’t love it like some B.net members claim to. And I don’t hate it like some H2S.com members claim to.
I do think that Halo CE is better in many respects. The single player is actually replayable, coop is a lot more fun, melee looks better, whatever. But I still think Halo 2 is a great game in it’s own respects. I like the story telling in Halo 2 better, because you could actually hear the voices (Halo CE had crappy sound work in the cutscenes). I like the multiplayer better, because when playing LAN with my cousins and uncle, we actually play against each other when on Halo 2. In Halo CE we just end up flipping tanks and doing stupid shit after 2 minutes on Blood Gulch.
So my opinion is not that Halo 2 is horribly crap, or that Halo CE is so much better that Halo 2 pales in comparison. They’re both great games for different reasons. Hopefully Halo 3 can be better than both.
TGPYour metaphor is wrong. In fact, it is so laughably inapplicable it renders the rest of your article into nothing more than a complete waste of words. Here is why:
The people on H2S are not watching Bungie putting on a show. They’re paying for a product. Since they have paid money to own the game, they are perfectly entitled to voice their criticisms of it. Whether or not they’re game designers is completely irrelevant. They’re customers.
Here’s a metaphor: I don’t know how to make a fridge, but if I buy a fridge and it’s a crap fridge, I have every right to voice my displeasure. I don’t know anything about circuitry or motors (well I do, but hypothetically…) and yet I know perfectly well, despite my lack of fridge-making expertise, that this fridge is substandard fridge. As a customer I have every right to complain.
And what’s laughable is the inherent hypocrisy of your statement. You find it perfectly acceptable for people who don’t have a clue about game design or programming to make POSITIVE comments. But why? These people are laymen. They’re ignorant. They apparently have no more right to offer an opinion than anyone on H2S. But seeing as they’re offering praise, your principle turns.
Stop whining. Stop libelling a site. I know plenty about game design and I know Halo 2 is flawed. I know people who’ve worked on games and mods who find it flawed. Funnily enough, their complaints aren’t too far different to the laymen you’ve generalised several thousand people as.
There’s no way I can compete with System-J’s post, but I will say this. Just because the name of the site is “Halo 2 Sucks”, doesn’t mean that absolutely every single member bashes and critizes Bungie and thinks they can create a better game than they can. The site is merely individuals expressing themselves in a comfortable environment.
In a way, your just as bad as we are.
The next time I read something that uninformed and moronic, i might just have to off someone.
I wouldn’t call what we do at H2S ‘bitching’ so much as I would call it ‘constructively criticizing with blatantly rude turns of phrase’. Sure, we sprinkle our posts with plenty of ‘this-and-that sucks’ ‘newb’ and ‘what freaking retard came up with that’, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t SOME truth in what we say.
Take the auto-aim and bullet magnetism, for instance. Can you not see that they’re ramped up from the previous game? Then take a look at the Sword. Can you honestly say it’s a fair and balanced weapon? The Rocket Launcher? If you think taking out vehicles with the Rocket in Halo 2 requires any sort of skill, then you have an IQ that doesn’t go much beyond the single digits.
There’s plenty of stuff in Halo 2 that sucks (and a few things that rock). We just want Bungie to know we’re dissatisfied with that crap so it doesn’t make it into Halo 3. We (the majority of us, anyway) don’t want Halo 3 to be a carbon copy of Halo: CE, but we want it to do away with a lot of the obviously shit mechanics that were in Halo 2.
Contrary to what you think, a lot of us ARE true fans. We’re such hardcore fans that we do, indeed, waste our lives telling Bungie what we think could make their game better. Is that wrong? No. Ultimately, we’re part of the fanbase, and they should know what their fanbase wants. So we’re telling them.
Next time, know what you’re talking about before you post. You came off as an asshat with an axe to grind. Next time, try stating why you think we’re wrong and what makes you believe Halo 2 is nothing less than a pinnacle of gaming achievement. No more of this “ZOMG ther newbs cauz they hates teh Halo 2!” crap.
There is nothing I can say that will be as articulate or relevant than System-J’s reply.
With that in mind I have a small but nonetheless imprtant piece of information to relay to the writer of the aforementioned article:
You have a somewhat close minded view on Halo2sucks.com and thanks to that you have reduced yourself to nothing more than a gibbering hypocritical moron in my eyes and the eyes of many.
The only people that will fail to see this are the same people that failed to see exactly why Halo 2 was an unworthy succesor to Halo:Combat evolved.
To use a well worn euphemism; these people are not the brightest crayons in the box and frankly mate neither are you.
My, my, MY!
Just look at all this renewed interest in a blog post that is nearing a year in age. It seems as if the Halo 2 Sucks Community is having a slow news week.
While I am more than happy to provide grist for your collective mill, I cannot help but feel as if an essential point is being missed by many of you. There are, of course, exceptions to any rule. My hat goes off to recent posters such as Hunter Killer and Great Pretender. They are the sort of audience for whom this forum was built.
Pardon me while I attempt yet another point of clarification on the topic that was at hand last January:
Constructive criticism is fine. It is, in fact, essential to any creative process. Every soveriegn state in the HALO Nation has produced a wish list or a suggestion box of some sort for the attention of Bungie Studios. Even the constant readers of TTL have had some choice words for what can be done by The Maker to enhance their gaming experience.
I regret to inform you that Halo2Sucks has not cornered the market for feedback. You have only accomplished the dubious feat of being the most negative about it. Congratulations. Your bile bag is contained in the pocket affixed to the seat in front of you.
There is not a gamer alive who does not harbor an opinion for how their favorite game could be made better. The question then becomes, how do you best communicate that message? Do you approach the developers with an air or respect? Or hate?
Can you really describe yourselves as a fan of a thing that “sucks”? Is that not self-deprecating? You love a game that sucks? Enough, even, to build [or contribute to] a website about it? What does that say about you? It just seems like an oxymoron to me. My criticisms were not as much about your message, as much as the package in which it came.
You may label me a moron or accuse me of being misinformed or attack the logic in my writing. You may even tell me that I suck. Yes. I will admit that I came to your site and lifted a number of comments that were in aid of my point. Guilty as charged. I came with preconceived notions, based on your lovely domain name, and I mined your comments for proof.
You can’t fault me for this. I only subjected you to the same treatment to which you subjected a number of people who worked hard on something that was built for your entertainment. I focused on a few items, and used them to dismiss your entire offering.
Hurts, doesn’t it? Now that you have been the ones on the receiving end of toxic criticism from an external source, perhaps you will contemplate ways to soften your message. It would render it more effective for your intended audience.
Think about it. Would you accept constrcutive criticism from someone who spread the word that you sucked? You didn’t accept it from me, thus proving my ellusive point.
I don’t really expect to make headway with the Halo 2 Sucks Community. People rarely revise their opinions based on something they read on the Internet. The blogosphere is, in its nature, intellectually incestuous. People only gather together into groups that reinforce their existing opinions.
What’s more, I have come to discover that www.halo3sucks.com has already been reserved.
There is just no pleasing some people. In these cases, it is best to not listen to them at all.
FIN.
I have read every word on this particular discussion. I have also taken the time to visit Halo2sucks.com and look around a bit. There have been great arguments on both sides, and I like that we take pride in our favorite games. Why wouldn’t we? After all, we shelled out the hard-earned cash to play them.
First off, I would like to say that Halo2sucks.com is not a bad site. Although the name is decieving at times, their message and intentions aren’t as bad as some may have been led to beleive. Every forum on the internet has unintelligent posts and immature comments that do not in any way represent the site in any way. After reading several entries from some of their older members, I am confident they can argue respectfully. I am also confident that they can listen respectfully. Had I not visited Halo2sucks.com and looked around carefully, my first impression from the title would be that it was a typical flame site harboring pre-pubescent children screaming for chocolate milk at the top of their lungs. This is far from the truth. I find it is rather a dedicated group of gamers who loved a game so much, they will try and do anything to improve the next release from the developer. It has been argued on both fronts that criticism is good for gaming developers to improve their work, and I would definitely agree. It must be noted though, that if respect is not given, it will not be granted in return. The domain name comes off as very abrasive, and immediatly sets the tone of the message. I have read great arguments on the site pertaining to problems in Halo 2 that I wanted fixed as well. The problem is that the implementaion of those arguments are sometimes clouded by the negativity that the site seems to be projecting. Saying that Halo 2 sucks can be percieved as telling Bungie they suck. Chances are, if I tell someone they suck right before I argue a point, they probably wont be listening as intently as I had hoped. I don’t know how Bungie interprets what Halo2sucks guys have to say, but I would imagine it would be mutually beneficial to come across more mature.
Example: Here’s what I loved about Halo CE, (insert cool CE fact here) and I would love to see that return in Halo 3.
This way, you have the developer’s attention, and you have praised them while giving them constructive criticism at the same time.
Let’s talk business for a second. Halo CE was fantastic in my opinion. I had never been that excited about gaming since Goldeneye. I could list all the reasons I thought Halo CE was great, but someone else could easily point out what they didn’t like about it. Does their opinion make it a bad game? Yes it does, but only to that gamer. When you look at Halo CE, there was a definite seperation between the skilled and unskilled. Gamers who took the time to improve their pistol 3 shot were awarded with kills and wins. I think Halo CE took more skill regarding simple use of weaponry alone. Thus, a fanbase was built on a group of very talented players who were dedicated to perfecting their gameplay.
Let’s now take a look at Halo 2. I could list pros and cons here for hours, as I m sure many of you would agree. One thing that should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has played both games, is that Halo 2 is easier. Button glitching aside, its not uncommon for new players to catch on quickly, and get kills on some of the veteran players. There is much more magnetization on the aim-assist, and starting weapons have become useless in the eyes of some gamers. What I am getting at, is that Halo 2 balances out the players much differently than it had been set up in Halo CE. This of course gave hardcore Halo CE enthusiasts a reason to complain, because no longer is their dedication to perfection paying off so well. The game instead leans more to the average gamer, who plays at a non competitive recreational level. Ask yourself, is one of these groups bigger than the other?
This is the real world, and no developer will choose an option that makes them less money. Sadly, this is a numbers game, and there will always be more recreational gamers then pros. The gaming industry is a volatile market, and for every one gamer who liked Halo CE better, there are 10 new gamers who love it the same way you loved the original. Bungie has to do a balancing act, and it is impossible to please 100% of the consumer. I can already see some enthusiasts getting pissed that BXR and RRX have been taken out of Halo 3. I can also see millions of regular gamers pissed that they weren’t taken out. If everyone played the game for the same reasons we would never have a problem. This will never be the case though, and there will always be consumers who are against the developer’s final decisions.
We are all gamers here, and it disappoints me to see such negativity linked directly to something I love so much. Gaming communities are a completely new concept that has revolutionized the way games are played. There is already so much negative judgement against us, it confuses me why we make ourselves look like fools while arguing moot points. We need to stick together if we are to set the stage for tomorrow’s gaming.
In the words of someone I have the utmost respect for: “Go Play Halo”, be that CE or 2.
Locke